The French TMO Footage Drama: Our Take on Rugby's Online Debate | Lekker Rugby Pod

My impression from how they film the little flowers that are growing in the corner of Bordeaux's pitch and the stud underneath Louis Bielbury's fleet feet is they have infinite angles. They just seem to be very finite when it's time to talk about something that will hurt their team. There's a bit of a weakness when you get to the weakest two or three forwards in All Blacks. At the top level, they're all great. But who's your weakest three forwards?

Right now, the strongest, weakest forwards in the world are South African box. Like you would say, our weakest tight forwards are fine. The weakest all-black forwards are not fine. Is this going to be the stupidest, least funny, most just disgusting double by a team where Leinsters comes from nowhere, trudging, not that great, and they win both. Canter duo win both titles, I mean, can you imagine?

Yes. Oh, yeah, you win. The least popular win ever. This is the Lecker Rugby Pod, only on Megaphone Rugby. Welcome back to the Lecker Rugby Pod, and it's another classic, Aaron.

We said that we like these the most when you and I talk to each other, not all these guests and stuff. I mean, come on, man. It's nice when we have a talk. So it's time to do that again. Welcome back.

Keep it pure. The water from the rock in the karoo that springs forth from the deep. Let's get back to our roots, man. It's different because, you know, in one way, you get excited about guests because it's part of why we do this. We get to meet the people and decide in our hearts, oh, so they're nicer than we thought, or maybe they're not as nice.

It's interesting. It's funny. By the way, we have incredible guests. So even though we're going to enjoy this one, I do want to look forward just a little bit. We are circling with Johan van Kran to talk about the great Alfie Gate, Barbary Gate, where the richest country.

French Territor Gate, let's call it what it is, but anyway. The richest rugby nation in the world with drones and ballistic missiles and subterranean cameras. I think they probably have cameras underneath the scrum. It always seems like when it's really important to find an angle that they go, look, they had all the angles. Yeah, but you didn't take all the angles.

Somehow no one pushed a button to film. So that's always funny to me. So there's a lot of false red herrings there. And then we are later this week continuing on our series, which I think is brilliant and unparalleled. No one's done it.

I think we're trademarking it, which is a coach and a player. whether it's a defensive set or maybe a scrum we're looking forward to having a guy like Brock to talk with Funkunu we're looking forward to having guys on the defense side maybe a Norman Laker talking about how Paul De Villiers and Branis get over the ball so much and dominant tackle but we just had a wonderful talk with Rito Schlingwani and we had Ben Jason Dixon on and Rito and BJ took us deep into the mall into emotions but this week we're hopeful to have we're almost 99% sure of this. Attack coach for the Stormer is Davi Sneiman with Sasha Feinberg and Gomazulu in a rare appearance. But what's cool about it is the two come on at the same time and they chat. And there's something very interesting about watching a coach and a player interact.

I saw Coach Shlungwani talking about emotion and saying, I felt guilty that I had these players on the field post Chibi Solomon's death against Konak. and you could see BJ turn to him and think, I didn't know that. It was interesting to watch that. So we're looking forward to seeing one of the most controversial, polarizing figures in South African rugby, SFM, talking about how he thinks through attack with a methodical thinker like Davi, who has the team on top of the log. So let's talk about that.

But I agree with you. I prefer these because we're just chatting. well I'm so happy Darvish Neyman is coming on because we know him and you Griffin and see eye to eye it's going to be so interesting to see that angle anyway that's something that I'm looking forward to on the subject of having a good chat you and I had a chat with Paul Avenant and that video is up on Tuesday afternoon about how we started, how our megaphone started and how we ended up where we are so if you ever wondered what the origin story is I'm putting the link up here go have a look So, Andy, the talk of the town is Queech Rugby versus Andy Goode. So whose side are you on? Let's start with that.

So Goode comes with baggage, right? He consorts with Nigel Farage and those guys. He likes to poke the bear. He's a bit of a Brexiteer. He's a bit of a foxhound hunting in the whatever, you know, that guy.

and so it's a bit de classe and excruciating embarrassing in how he commentates because he likes to find controversy in games where there is none but let's just be clear there was legitimate controversy in this one it would have been derelict for Andy to not speak about three head hits on one player no matter how moppy his head is it still hurts his head no matter how much that hair cushions it and it would have been weird it would have been odd and so then we had the Squid Brothers coming in they made their name by being different and jumpy films, quick talking almost like it's being played at three times speed you know irreverent but then they sort of as they got a little bit more famous they became sanctimonious, they told us well we have to think about this and that and it always seemed like they're telling you there's no other way to look at things than this. So they square off. And the tail of the tape is interesting because on YouTube, it's a no-brainer. Squidge must win. But in the traditional media, no-brainer, Andy gets to say, how much have you played in your mom's basement?

So that's uncool. Goody went too low there because in some ways, he's even doing what he's doing now because of his pod career with jim hamilton on the other hand i think sometimes the squidge brothers the owens brothers get a bit insufferable um where they preach to people so the sanctimony versus do a setude and it's a tough one there's an overlap here so let me just say this i find it quite amazing on this you know i'm building a graph right i speak um it's right in front of me and actually have i can show you it's rough so it's like there's an axis where you say you have all the money in the world the drones the tv footage the massive contracts and then your readiness and ability to give angles to a tmo on demand is very lacking let's just say that so it's not like we shouldn't con you know we shouldn't attack say fiji for not having angles when probably there's only two two cameras that are set up you know for it but my impression from how they film you know the little flowers that are growing in in the corner of bordeaux's pitch and uh the stud underneath louis bielbury's fleet feet is they have infinite angles they just seem to be very finite when it time to talk about something that will hurt their team and this is not just french versus the world this is french versus french so inside the league um this is well known that it's a home favored league and it is built around that the differences between home wins and away wins in the top 14 versus other leagues is stark it is um several uh variables or whatever it's called very you know it's it's it's a tough one to win on the road and so if you're going to win on the road and in your bath, you know, you're going to have to have everything come right. It's probably hard to win when three head hits, you know, don't go your way. That's probably like that's against the laws of fate. And so it probably did swing it or might have.

Or it might have been that it was a kick by Finn Russell to win it or lose it. If it got that tight. Because the worst person to lose on a card is a nine. And Lukku might be the best player. So, yeah.

So it's a big deal. Johan van Kran is not an emotional, hysterical type. He has assured me directly in our chats, we're trying to talk to him about this, is that he's not complaining about the process itself. He's not saying the protocol as written on the page is wrong. He's saying the execution of it didn't go right that day.

So this is different. I don't want people to say, but look at the rule. It doesn't matter. The rule clearly doesn't require the TV producers to generate enough angles in a specific moment. They don't have to.

There's no, you must film it from this camera, 4, 5, 10, and 14. It just says that all angles you do have must be available to the TMO. If you can see this, the nuanced, subtle difference there is, if I decide not to generate as many angles as I would normally generate on a scrum, but suddenly on a head hit, I only have two instead of 10. There's nothing to give. And the second thing is it's asking a lot of a TMO in a little trailer somewhere separated, knowing that the entire stadium is baying for your blood to say, I'm going to stop everything and I'm not going to let the producer stall me and fumble around and not give it to me.

I have to say, I will be the guy that, you know, on the wet blanket stop everything hold on no i don't care i need more this is a tough psychological profile to adopt you've got to be really okay with being unpopular and so if you're being hurried in your ear by the referee by the crowd by the occasion by that moment i don't know about you but i'd feel a lot of pressure to go okay okay we're good now it's normal people pleasing you know and so you'd have to have someone who's kind of being okay being the curmudgeon and saying no not good enough guys i know you have more angles dig it up for me and find it for me or on the first one geez that's all the angles you have you know i'm yelling at somebody hey next time i need all the angles i want to see alfie's ear alfie's nose alfie's tonsils and lucas feet i don't buy that not you but that he didn't have the angles i mean they have 10 angles at any given time and then suddenly there's only two where did the other eight go it's not like they don't have it to show it but that's my point so it's a deliberate thing that they they're not showing it so you know it's a that i have a problem with so you know the thing about the tmo feeling a bit worried or endangered or whatever the word might be maybe they should move him out of the stadium like a bunker you know it doesn't feel intimidated that somebody might come around and turn over the caravan or something right maybe that's the i've always thought it doesn't matter why are we making them there like they should be in a neutral bunker because it's just footage right they're just looking at footage apart when someone says they must uh when they catch something in the footage themselves so yeah it's weird and um so now it's moved to bilbao in spain and apparently an english uh produced production team will or man not a spanish so it wasn't just because it was in france must be french it can be in spain and be english it can be whatever you want um so this shows the hole in the system which is in a semi-bloody final of the richest most prestigious club tournament we look like rank amateurs to other sports and to the casual fan looking in we look like our heads up our arse Why is the dispositive moment coming down to the ad hoc decision of a producer with incredible allegiances to the home side to come up with footage a pond demand in the right moment for a TMO who this disembodied presence somewhere in a trailer somewhere looking at something referring to a referee with all that scramble the crowd booing hissing whistling um not good enough not good enough for the top sports the not just integrity itself but the appearance of integrity is vital so that you can lose and feel like i hate that but i don't question the loss i don't think that it will you know it was baked and and cooked so i this one fails that test so uh goody the somewhat unlikable blowhard wins in a split in a split decision over the sanctimonious tousled haired um somewhat strange squid brothers because even though both of them did fouls both of them punched below the belt goodie talked about their mom shouldn't do that and basements and then the squid brothers attacked a man's livelihood shouldn't do that so um yeah the slightly groaner man wins this over the two the two uh uh arrested development teenagers well in in the speech brothers defense i think it's will at least he apologized i mean sometimes you can't go too far sometimes it's easy to go too far we know that ourselves and a lot of what we're saying now is a bit tongue-in-cheek as well but i mean there are limits to everything i suppose oh that's good yeah and i did see that apology um and clearly I think the original so how this kicked off was the Squidge brothers bemoaned the whininess of the coverage that it felt like to them that Goody and partner on comms were highlighting and so I think in a normal match you know everyone knows that we don't like to bag refs that's probably true but this was extraordinary it was even the most neutral of if you just turn off the sound and you watch this you'd go wow that's a lot of things going the wrong way like we're looking at it going that doesn't make sense so i think it would be yeah it's derelict for any let's talk about it and i think but the baggage that he brings into it is he is a bit of a whinger you know he whines a lot about these things and so everyone's carrying their baggage the squidge brothers come in with their sanctimony and Gudi comes in with his mininess. Yeah, like I said, like you said earlier, it's sanctimonious. We have the right to complain and tell you what to do and what to think. I don't like that, let's be perfectly honest. But I have to admit as well, when I was watching that game, I was a little swayed by the commentary and I only realized it afterwards when this controversy erupted.

I was asking, where is the footage? The guy saying, clearly that must have been the yellow card. And then I realized, listen, I must be careful not to have my mind made up for me kind of a thing that's that's there's truth to that yeah but also um they're annoying i mean the english commentators are annoying just by i mean they're just in general the like leo is annoying um yeah that's just the problem the problem is you already come in annoyed like i go ah now it's gonna be this guy or that guy and we have the preconceptions about it sticking to the facts of the case of this case i'm just saying i think andy would have been really way out of line to not bring this up stay on it and bash it because it was i don't know i just i haven't seen that many head hits on one fella be unpunished yeah and it's just stupid at some point you're like what is the deal what are we talking about are we do we have something about head hits i mean think about what happened to nothing for shea being out for so long banned think about these i mean 50 50 calls and people are not only red carded they're banned for the same type of thing so yeah it doesn't sit well no you're right you're right that's definitely true but the thing is we're not using these commentators in south africa i'm just talking from a south african perspective we don't hear them we hear matt piers and paul terry and the likes we very seldom hear these overt sees commentators they sound different and to the you sound very authoritative you know okay it kind of sounds like you know it's because of the english accent and everything else i admit to my preconceptions of what's the word yeah most yeah i suppose anyway let's talk about the area index quickly i mean you've uh kept or though on top and last week he said barely barely number one but i suppose this week it's safer number one yeah so not i don't want to lose the fact that no matter what happened and no matter what referees do which sometimes hurt you sometimes help you poor doe took care of business and they still look like a lethal team it's not so much that they became better that they barely went away it's that the chasing pack took a step back so you know you know to lose is not is not what to lose was they meekly surrendered to bordeaux that's already in the books um you know i think but there were moments when the visitors from England, the Bath team, needed to do better and didn't win some of the physical collisions. Right or wrong, legal or illegal, you still have to on the day be the monster. Saints are not in the Champions Cup, so they have to do it in the Prem and that's a tough one, because if Bordeaux wins the double, the index is sort of academic.

I mean, there is no debate, you know right that they're number one um and then you look below that fold um i'm looking at the hurricanes and we and we have to acknowledge sort of a what's called a syllogism we know that the all blacks pull their players only from domestic clubs we know that that tends to be any given year you have a couple of really good new zealand teams that if they were magically transported into the Urk or something, they would do very well. Okay, so there's no doubt about that. The Crusaders of old would have done very well in these leagues. But right now, it appears to be the Canes. So the Canes are taking care of business.

So they have a little challenge and they move up on the index. Probably the highest super rugby team has been in ages. It's a weak competition. The bottom half of it is really putrid, actually. But the top is the top.

It's still All Blacks playing against All Blacks. the New Zealand Derby's basically, that's still a thing. And those guys are exceptionally talented and they'll be there at the business end of every World Cup. So we have to work backwards from that logic and retro engineer that they are still better than a lot of teams that look good in these Northern Hemisphere vessels. And because our teams don't have the proper, I mean, so many of the box are playing other ways in other places, whereas in New Zealand, they are, those are the all black teams.

So Canes make a bid. Stormers are right there in the middle of the mix. Lions still hanging in there. Someone questioned why the Bulls not there instead of, say, Montpellier or Lions. And I think it's because the Bulls need to cement what looks to be true.

Like, we keep giving them these final two matches. They have to do them. So for the Bulls fans there, I think if they take care of business this week, you're going to see them into the top 10. I think that's going to be part of it. Because some of these other teams are going to fade.

But you just have to put it the Bulls have enough of a question mark from the early part of the season that now what looks to be inevitable, which is their rise, I think the index is just waiting to see that. So if you say, well, where are they right now? Probably 11 or 12. So they're right there. And some teams are going to drop out.

You can see that. You can obviously see that this is judgment day. there's collision courses all over the place Glasgow might be in a free fall I don't know, we don't know yet yeah, we'll see something that I'm a little wary of something's brewing in New Zealand Americans moving up there, they're really making all the right noises today announcement of the director of rugby and you know they seem to be getting their house in order it's a bit ominous, what do you think? I cannot wait for that the tour, you know we were like today we were planning some stuff it's very um big picture still about events and and driving it and you could just just talking about it makes me excited you know okay so the thursday before should we do with this with the time where are we gonna what are we gonna eat who are we gonna bring and i'm i'm starting to get you know goosebumps so yeah i and it doesn't do any good if all blacks are like the all blacks of 2024 or maybe even like 25 still not good enough like capitulation wellington we want them to be full noise so i would say it's good um but it's scary because new zealand doesn't stay down for long if they aren't handling the highball they fix that if they need new blood at 10 maybe reuben love is the guy that comes and changes the picture Lester Fanganuku at 13 can augment guys like Quinn Tupai and Jordi Barrett. They've got plenty of weapons.

I suppose the issue is going to be in the pack. So you've got to have three packs to be good at test level because one's always injured. So to get your two packs, your 14 people, your 13 players on the day, there's a bit of a weakness when you get to the weakest two or three forwards in the All Blacks at the top level they're all great but who's your weakest three forwards? Right now the strongest weakest forwards in the world are South African box like you would say our weakest tight forwards are fine the weakest All Black forwards are not fine and they either yeah and that's in a in a game where you have to have 35 and a squad and a greater squad of 45 and every time you take the field you have two or three people who are injured who cannot be picked that's just life it comes down to who's your weakest players in the 35 and that's why world cups get won by depth by stephen donald coming on as the third or fourth pick number 10 for the all blacks and slotting goals it's it comes down to that and that's why even when you look at the french you wonder about their actual depth their real depth um if someone goes down all blacks definitely have it um they just have to have hard choices maybe it's good to have a new coach for them just on that one thing which is everything is up for grabs everything is questioned nothing is taken for granted you know no there's no favorites being picked it's just rennie sitting down and saying how can I disturb the box? How can I take the box out of their system?

And he's a good coach. He did very well with the Wallabies and the Wallabies were not as good as the All Blacks against us specifically with the Wallabies. I mean, you said it last time and I started thinking about it. He managed to upset us, beat us with a much weaker Wallabies side. Much weaker, yeah.

And the other thing is, you talk about 35 players. It looks like they're going to bring 80 players. I mean, it looks like they bring all the New Zealand sides over here and just sort of pick and choose who they want to play on the day, it looks like. I mean, I suppose they are in a bit of a situation. They need to figure things out.

But that's a bit of an extreme thing, don't you think? If you have a lot of money, and this, make no mistake about it, this rivalry tour is generating a lot of money for both sides. If you have a lot of money, you should do that. You should actually bring 80 players. You know, we should do that when we go to New Zealand.

just take everyone and be there for a long time and train and live right if if so the if is if you have the budget that a specific tour affords you you know where where the money is so huge and make no mistake when the when the tour goes to New Zealand and when you have revenue sharing and price you know cost ratios and stuff it's going to be lucrative and uh yeah that is the way to You almost make, you bring over practice squads where they can replicate the other team You have unlimited nines to keep firing balls from racks there no one like an actual nine you know you have to do that practice there are certain kickers that are just you know to be able to replicate a high ball and have a really go you might have a chris smith along he's not really going to play for the box me but he's really good at putting that up and under you need um you need to be in tour mode like old-fashioned tours where you saw the ship leaving and there were so many players on board and they were going to the British Isles for three months you just take everyone it took three months to get there I think right can you imagine the shenanigans on that boat you know anyway that's interesting the other team that caught my eye there you know not really that eye up is Leinster I mean they're really getting you know they're starting to fire towards the end of the season towards the business end in the final of the Champions Cup, you know, on track for at least a quarter or semi, I suppose, in the URC, but yet only still six. Do you think, same as the Bulls, you know, looking at the earlier season form, you have to prove themselves towards the end a bit more? Yeah, it's such an interesting conundrum. So I queried Bernard Jackman about this and asked Birch, do you think this was the plan all along? Not that any team wants to lose 35 mil in, you know, Cape Town, that's not right, But was there a bit of a, it doesn't matter how we start, it's all about how we finish.

And if you plan the season sort of intellectually that way, like we really don't want to peak too soon. And we can, we're the kind of team with enough depth that we can do that, that we can taper and we can guard and we can safeguard. We can, what's it called, where you ration yourself. and given that they had a lot of guys playing for the British and Irish Lions, that it might have been they were all ragged. So what if there was a way where they looked at the season and they said, we don't really care because we're the kind of team that if we just get into the playoffs, then all the rankings don't matter anymore.

It doesn't matter. We're fourth in the log. We are the best team with the most test internationals. We're basically Ireland, plus Slomani and Rico Wani and stuff like that. So there is a question, Mark, about me.

Was that part of it? And then the other part that makes me think that that could be true was Nienaber. How Leinster was leaking a lot of tries and they weren't that good on the defense. But when you saw when it started to really matter and the way they played Toulon. And Toulon was also a team that was stacked.

I mean, they have incredible, like a guy like Brex. And Nienaber handled Brex. Brex was done. Brex didn't even fire a shot. So it's ominous and it makes me wonder, is this going to be the stupidest, least funny, most just disgusting double by a team where Leinster comes from nowhere, trudging, not that great.

And they win both. Can't do a win in both titles. I mean, can you imagine? The least popular win ever. And I can see them doing it.

So what I'm saying is, I think that that that's very possible because rounding into form with that type of players i mean come on when they on their day i think andre petorius on our whatsapp group was saying when it works you know i was calling it the the down and through ernie l swing where you're taking a perfect divot i've only played one round with the actual pga you know pro lenny watkis and i was i was i wasn't even worried about how his ball was bouncing and backing up on the green i was watching his divots and they were perfect rectangular stripes that you could go his caddy could go pick up bring back and then just and just stomp it down and it was perfect and here's mine you know and i'm not a bad golfer but i've got gouges they're diagonals sometimes it's too thin sometimes i'm taking no divot yeah and uh i thought wow and he said to me the divot is what we look at like i'm the range that I'm hitting and I thought when Leinster's on attack and it's really cooking that's what it looks like to me perfect divots down the middle easy these little wedge shapes and they're swinging through like a wedge and there's really nothing you can do about it I mean if they drop the ball they drop the ball if they throw the pull forward okay but if they can keep doing that they're going to score and sure enough they did and then you go to the other side of the the ball and you say, Nidamber, are you still a good defensive coach? Hell yes. I mean, he looked like he couldn't stand still in that box. Early in the season, he was a bit, you know, here and there, but now he looks locked and loaded. I'm nervous about Leinster.

I don't like this at all. I'm not happy about how they look. They look ominous. And the funny thing was on that megaphone newsroom, we've got a new member and it's Gronje. And I was slagging the Irish off and I was, you know, I forgot where we like the Irish now.

Let me know. I like that. That was so good. You can stand up for yourself. I love it when you said Brexit, you know, it was just isolated and expelled almost.

And the blind man of a stick could see that defense was next level. And you talked about the Bulls and the Stormers and everything else. I'm worried. But all the teams I saw play this weekend, really good teams, Leinster stands out for me. I'm like you.

I'm very worried about them going forward. As a South African rugby supporter, I suppose. I mean, they're the ones to watch. Yeah, when they get their physical, when they raise the stakes on the physical side, even guys that are not that physical at test level, because they're all test players at club level, it's devastating. It's devastating.

I don't care how many Galactico recruitment stuff you do for the French teams, coherence plus test level. So Leinster has, everyone's at test international, and then you're only having to get two guys from outside just to buy in. Slomani, Ioni, back in the day, Jordi Barrett, Achille Sleeman. But you don't have to do much. Like, everyone's really cohesive.

And I guess their Achilles heel was, in the big matches, they were fading on the physicality and defense. There is no way that Jacques Nidabar is sending any team of his into knockouts without the right frothing, ravenous, you know, rabid mentality. They're going to be chomping at the bit. So the one thing that could hold Denster back is now they have two competitions to straddle. And that's tough.

That really is. The closer we've been inside the teams, you and I, Bulls and Stormers, the more we see what logistics, how that plays, you know, just like how supply chains will win you a war, lose you a war. It's the same in rugby. Yeah, you know, you're 2% over your target for that, where you should have been on Thursday, you know, have to back off in a bit. And it brings me neatly to my next one.

I mean, Montpellier is your number 10, and they're in the final of the Challenge Cup with Ulster, believe it or not. And I mean, we talked about, you know, Ulster now being up next, Storm is going to play Ulster, but Ulster have to play week after week after week now for a couple of weeks, including a final. How are they going to manage? And also it's a short turnaround. Ulster has to play on a Friday evening, I mean, and after playing the semi-final.

Are they going to bring their best side? Are they going to sort of give up this game in the interest of keeping the powder dry for the final? What can the Stormers expect walking into that game against Ulster specifically? Yeah, I just went on to an Ulster pod yesterday and it was interesting. I was only on for 10 minutes talking about what the Stormers can do.

So I just lied to them so I could conceal the plan. Were you actually talking on the pod? Yeah. I was watching them speak to each other off camera kind of and they are really wrestling with that. In some ways, they know they're not going to win the ERC.

I think they have to go Stormers-Glasgow. I think that's a tough end for their season. and they've got injury issues and they've got lack of depth big time. So in some ways, it makes more sense for them to put all their chips on one fine day in Bilbao and just try to get a trophy, which they clearly cannot really do in the ERC. They could win one, but they're not going to go all the way, run the tables and win this thing.

But they could on one day do something. And so there's a temptation there to say, no one gives up any game, no one's throwing any game but just not name your best players for the full 80 against Stormers, see what happens you got Karnak and Munster about to play so maybe someone does you a favor and maybe Munster puts Karnak out of their misery and then Ulster's safe and you get in and the supporters say you got in, you're number 8 seed, you lose to the number 1 seed in Cape Town but you don't travel you know there's a way to make this okay in your head if you do well in the challenge cup if you get bombed in the challenge cup in the most massively televised day of ulster's season you don't really go anywhere in the earth because there's nowhere to go really you're gonna run into leinster or someone at some point and put you out then yeah i i can see their points so there's for little teams like let's say the lions once at some point were in both comps near the end they kind of have to pick one and and it's not clear to me how you do that maybe you keep going until it becomes clear like maybe for ulster it's clear now challenge cup will make the whole season feel really good but um you go for both you end up kicked in both you know you get maybe really get walloped in both. Well, I have to return to Leinster now, because the same argument applies for Leinster now, playing against the Lions. Not a top-notch team, but a very dangerous Lions this year. A team that you can't really say, you can't just bag it.

You have to go out to play for it. How's Leinster going to approach the Lions, for example? It doesn't matter. They will probably still make semifinal. Again, the same question applies.

They have a Champions Cup final coming up. How do they manage their troops? Yeah, but there's the depth for the Leinster Lions, I guess the Lions too. The Leinster Lions have way more depth than the Golden Lions. So you can see that happening.

That's tricky too, though. You don't want to go into playoffs of any kind limping or losing your confidence. So most of the time what will happen is they'll pick a framework or a skeleton that's still A-team, top team for Leinster, and then try to insert in the least momentous places a wing, perhaps blindside where you just say hit everything keep it simple you know there's ways you can put people in there to preserve Caelan Doris to preserve Gary Ringrose your people that you cannot do without Jamison Gibson Park would be a perfect example like you're going nowhere without Jamison Gibson Park so maybe that's one that you shield a little bit. Talking about people you can't do without it seems to me that I don't know what to do with Sam Pena at the moment it seems to be the opposite problem i love that he was he was talking on the whatsapp and we're like who's playing 10 is it harry or sam it was unclear and i i would suggest that that was part of the problem for a while there um you know leo notwithstanding talking about people putting the boot into us and like come on you know leinster is not um some woe-begone god-forsaken team without resources and without sycophants and you know incredibly sympathetic journalists they've got the dublin is in the bag and the irish times is in their pocket um they get everything they want they had the best one of the best players in the world jordie barrett from the backs and one of the best forwards in the world archie sneman i mean come on you know small violin but you know No, I think Sam is an interesting thing. I've had an arc there.

I feel sorry for him. And I almost don't want to talk about him at all because I don't want to take someone that I think it purely a question of confidence at this point that it yeah I feel sad for him I don want to I would just say this It looks like to me it the danger of elevating someone in a position where you got to think a lot too quickly And then the mentals go, and it's really weird. I mean, obviously, he can still kick the ball out of hand almost better than anyone, but there's so much more to the game. And Harry wasn't having a great game either. So it wasn't one because of them.

It was one on just the forward-packed deciding we're going to win every collision and then on the defensive side guys like Gary Ringrose and by the way, Gary Ringrose has said that Nino Abbas changed his whole career that he has turned him into a different player he is the most effective coach at taking a guy like Jesse Creel and adding that little bit here and there to where they're just a dominant defensive player Gary Ringrose was not known as a dominant defensive player Now he is one of those guys, you've got to be on a swivel. If he's anywhere near you, he's going to kill you. So you have to always look out for him. And he loves the contact now. Even when he's scoring, he just ran over someone.

That was not Gary Ringrose five years ago. So that's a Jacques Niedauer effect that every player working with Jacques has said, is that he gets more out of you. He makes you furious, infuriated. He finds the rage. He finds some perceived slight in the third grade.

and makes you overcome it. You know, I always wondered about Nidabar. Is he the kind of guy that will kind of have to move from place to place? Because it's hard to live like that. It's hard to live with your hair on fire.

And in a way, is it perfect that he might come back having been away for a while? Because I imagine Nidabar, talking to Nidabar is like talking to a blowtorch, like you're just having a chat with a welder. Well, his hair is on fire. What hair? all right speaking of hair and beards and such we had a great talk with paul as you said and uh i'll post something on socials but paul came on with a fake beard so he has a beard envy sorry paul yeah you know that was quite a funny one um that's actually going live just now come to talk of it come to think of it listen um i think it's set up beautifully for this he's coming up you know it's living up to all expectations your video last week that we talked about the top eight possibly in the article we wrote it's going to be the dream semi-finals looks like might be you know perhaps you don't know but you never know but it might just be that the ones we all dreamed about anyway let's move on quickly to the spring box the junior spring box you know playing shooting the lights out and then have the rules changed on them did you know about did you hear about that you know changing the bonus point rules and everything else was it retrospective was it just a slip up did somebody not read the document properly or what's the story you know we don't do this very well do we rugby we look so oh fast um i don't think anything changed on the rule book it was was comms it's the fact that the sansar is a little office in western sydney it's got two people in it no one ever goes there it's got no presence um the stakeholders are all parochial so no one's really pushing sansar as a whole there's no one who can rise above and push for the greater interest of the rugby championship in all of its iterations um there's bad blood quite frankly between some of the unions anyway so yeah it's it's the shambles the level of statistics that are on the rugby championship sites are putrid they're worse than varsity cup if i try to access something and really get into it i have to really go to sa rugby and extract it from there or even some weird pirate sites to see you know what happened but sansa doesn't have anything it's it's got nothing you know it's it's got the kind of the kind of stats that mean nothing you know tackle percentage uh i don't know meters gained it's got no insights in this day and age so it just but the good side baby box man they look abs so dave vessels um Kevin Foote, friends from way back, both having coached in Melbourne, both having learned the hard way how to, you know, preach an underdog spirit.

But they're definitely top dogs. I mean, from midfield, from scrums, from tactics, from, you know, there's not even a wobble except maybe line outs from time to time. But, man, there's just every component. They look like men versus boys. So obviously, we hope they take care of business in the final one and get that one point they need, that one point to win the championship.

But yeah, it's not good press relations to say with one round to go, it's in the bag and then have to retract later. Well, I didn't know. I mean, I knew it and I forgot about it. And I thought it changed that it's three plus tries, not four tries that earns the bonus point in the rugby championship in Sanzar competitions. I was a bit taken aback somebody pointed out to me and then I said no you're wrong and I went in and checked no it isn't it's always been three plus tries three tries more than your opponent then you get a bonus point so that was a bit of a surprise to me just on junior spring box I mean that's the thing that's like Vostika every year you have to renew and one of the things that stood out for me is some of these players is now the second year that they've played Riley Norton and the likes next year they have to inevitably move on because they're going to age out of it how do they how do you think they managed that because now the school system seems to be producing some top quality talent and it's getting pulled in I suppose earlier now with proper coaches appointed Kevin Foote I'm not saying other words I'm just saying the structures are better how do you think they're going to manage to keep this kind of level up I think that's what Dave Vessels is doing I think he's got the monster spreadsheet I think he's doing what Stuart Lancaster did for Ireland and if you can get your Franco Smith in Italy like if you get your arms around it and really do some planning you can obviously identify talent you can get outside the familiar top schools and find your elrich low you can find your you can find more you can nurture it and then you can express yourself in a style so what kevin foots then be able to do with his friend dave is this is what i want this is what i see communicate with high schools communicate with varsity could communicate even with like say ollie reed's playing for the stormers but not getting onto the senior side but he can still communicate about what i want to see and um and so i think all that's brewing there's there's a problem of of riches there's a problem of too many too much talents and so the your question becomes you know in sticking with Ethan Allen?

Am I missing someone else? You know, so that's, that's been something that I think probably keeps Dave up at night, but he's done a really great job at rotating. Ashing Pede, maybe at the lines, you know, you'd still expect to see someone like him still playing, but he's not, doesn't seem to matter. Everyone is outdoing each other for Chias. There's technical prowess, like Riley Norton in the line outs, but also pure energy as a captain.

Isn't that great to see a captain top the stats in tackles and carries and rock entries. You know, Raleigh just seems to be on fire. Also, he is getting to play with Stormers enough that he's around some of the best in the business. So iron sharpens iron. You know, he's bringing that to the party.

I don't know. I just imagine entertaining. You look at the stats, the shape of the baby box, the junior box, and the shape is interesting. It's not exactly like the senior team. It's a little bit more like Ireland in keeping the ball alive.

There's a lot of carry. It's a possession team. They will keep the ball 55% to 60% of the time, whereas senior team likes to have less of the ball than the opponent. Take it away. Yeah, that's interesting.

It's not who's going to leave, it's who's going to come in, because there's not one guy leaving, but three or four guys standing in line to replace him. You're right. That's interesting. We talked about, you know, having guests on. Are we going to have any one of those who you're going to go on soon, do you think?

Yeah. So I'm talking to Dave and we'll figure out, and he's promised me that we'll get some. Kevin needs to focus. Kevin is a guy who really likes to dig in when he's in, and he doesn't want to come out and blow his horn. I mean, you'd love it because he's not Vinhardt, but he's also just a very applied guy.

So when he's in something, he's in. He doesn't want to talk during tournaments. So we'll have to wait till the post and then do a rap and see what he thinks. Kevin's also a guy that really believes in the power of poetry, of song, of diversity, of a great nation, the ability to tap into that and not skirt around it he's a guy who likes mma he himself is quite the grappler so he likes to take players to see i go to a studio where they're you know a sensei and have some fights um he likes to show up in communities maybe go places that they haven't gone before take a guy like riley norton and put him in a different place you know um so i i think what we're looking at is more it's a bit of Rossi but different. So Dave and Kevin definitely don't like posting Joel videos or something on their socials, but it's similar in the sense that they really get deep with their team.

They establish mottos. They establish a theme for the season. Whatever it is, we don't know what it is. We'll know at the end, but it's going to have maybe a Zulu word or a motto. Or maybe it's going to be because it's going to have some deep tribal meanings from years ago.

I mean, Kevin's a very studious guy and he loves things that are different. So I think South Africa is leading the world in rugby, not just because of what people keep saying, size, pace, genetics. It's something very different. This is a golden age of innovative thought, of embracing things that used to be boundaries and used to be handicaps. Now they're strengths.

And it seems impossible to beat if we stay on this track. Our danger is going to be complacency. And obviously, it's hard to lead the field. It's hard to be the favorite every single match. Junior box, senior box are the favorite in every single match they start now, anywhere in the world, far and away.

And that's the tough part. Okay, Ari, talking about coaches, what the interview we did with Jamie Lyle about Franco Smith. You talk about what makes a good coach a great coach. And that was a very interesting conversation of someone inside the Scottish system. I'm going to put a link up here.

Thanks, Ari. It was fun as always. I always enjoy these ones. Thank you. Cheers, man.

This is the Lecker Rugby Pod. Only on Megaphone Rugby. Thank you. Thank you.

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