Swys: From the Wimpy to the World Cup | Long Way to the Game

But the Giant has definitely awakened as far as Lawrence rugby. It's constant. We got it under our pole and Libby kicked that ball and it was coming straight to us where we were sitting. And I realised that Winger's going to catch it. And if she catches it, it's all gone.

But I promise you what, it was just a miracle that happened there. The ball just drifted away. But a meter or two and bounced and went out. You know what, in my rugby career of 35 years, what was the highlight? And I say that game against Italy, with all the, you know, we beat with the men's, we beat the All Blacks in Wellington, 36-35.

I had so many, so many good super rugby memories and stuff. But if people ask me, really that game against Italy to make the quarters was so, so special. One of those to remember is let's get the girls. Let's get them. Once we get them, then you'll see how it flies.

Because we're tough in this country. We've seen it in all sports. Our girls getting more exposure and we get the top athletes and the sprinters involved in rugby You'll be amazed what we can do. We can be like the men and win the World Cup This is the long way to the game only on Megaphone Rugby Welcome back to the long way to the game our fan-centric podcast on Megaphone Rugby And what a pleasure, what a privilege it is to welcome Swayze to bring back on my channel Swayze, we spoke to each other last year just before the Women's World Cup Since then you've actually made huge strikes in the women's game and it's such a pleasure to welcome you. Thank you for coming out.

It's so nice to speak to you guys. It feels like the other day we spoke but time flies. Especially in this game called rugby. Some games don't fly quickly but it feels like ages but it's so nice to be with you guys again. You said last year sometime after the World Cup, a giant has awoken.

And Libby sort of said the same thing where she said everything has changed. Talk to me about what you meant by a giant has awoken. From what I can gather, people are speaking to you. People are a little bit afraid of the Springbok women now actually coming up the ranks kind of a thing. Because they know once that juggernaut starts rolling, it's going to be tough to stop them.

Yeah, it's actually literally what I meant, Embiid. You know, no one, there was the attention to women's rugby or the participation, what do you call it, was really low. And I think what the girls did in the World Cup just ignited that. And suddenly everyone was talking about that, you know. And if you, where you go at SAS or at SA Rugby, wherever, suddenly we're there and they value us.

And apart from that, the amount of players that are suddenly interested to play, that's unreal. And that's what I mean. But I think that the real one is still to come. The real awakening is still to come. We've got a Super League starting at the end of the year.

Depends how we're going to do now as well in the competition going forward. But if I say the competition, we're playing a few big tests, as you know. So, yeah, and suddenly we're not playing top sides at the rank 8 to 15 in the world. We're playing sides much better and higher. But the Giants are definitely awaking as far as women's rugby is concerned in the broader spectrum.

Can I ask you, that kind of is a touchpoint for how you got into women's rugby. So your history is kind of storied on the men's side. You were with Rikwas, the under 21 box, in the golden age of Lions rugby, the Springbok attack coach. Then you become a consultant on super sport. And it would be easy to imagine you're kind of going to retire off into the sunset.

And then in 2024, you become the head coach of the women's Springbok team. Can you talk a little bit about that? Why that happened and why you decided to take the job? Yeah, Paul, that's a very interesting question. I was supposed to be semi-retired and had a really nice job at Supersport where you never lose, you criticise everyone, and you know you're always the hero.

But yeah, I had a very blessed career up to now. But then we were having a – I'll never forget it. The grandkids were visiting, and we were there at the Wimpy, funny enough, at Arterbiersport Dam where we live. where we used to stay. And suddenly I got a call from Dave Vessels.

Now, I remember Dave Vessels as the Rebels coach and the Force, and, you know, I just met him once and I didn't exactly know what was his role now. And he said he's with SA Rugby. And I said, okay, I've got it now all years. How are you, Dave? No, Swayze, I'm happy, man.

Would you like to get involved in SA Rugby again? He said, you, Dave, I'll have to think. And I said, what do you have in mind? And he said, what I have in mind is maybe coach the coaches at all levels, the sevens coaches, all the coaches that were under us here, that they fall under you, their development, their mentorship. You know, I love doing coaching coaches.

And that was supposed to be the idea. And I was keen. And the next day, I got another call from Dave. Did you ever think about it? I said, yes, Dave.

He said, but it's a bit more complicated. I said, what do you mean, Dave? He said, no, I want you to coach the women's rugby. I said, what team? He said, no, the Springbok women's rugby.

I said, oh, that's it. Now you've got me thinking. So to make a long story short, we prayed about it. And my wife was keen as well like me. And first, you can imagine my mates, everyone around me, no, come on, Swaze, women's rugby.

Some say, do they play rugby? you know there's a there was a bit of a stigma still in the in the old guys that uh that women shouldn't play rugby but boy have i changed you know uh with my uh but yeah uh to make a long story short as i said earlier uh i found a day found again and he said now what do you say uncle i said shoot that's a bit familiar dave if you call me uncle already okay but on on that note uh let's give it a go and i asked him dave did this come from you or from russi or from whom because you know we i i i i gotta make sure that i get the buy-in because i walked away from russi and him in 2019 and and i and i you know and i i had a bit of a stress problem then and uh and more burnout than a stress problem and he said no uh in fact it came from russia that they want me involved again with the women's rugby and now uh you know we we're staying in pole and we're loving it uh coaching coaching the women you see you see it as well you know there are people that do still say a woman's role is in the kitchen and you wanted to shut them up you know we saw last week we spoke to libby and i want to talk to you about just now but people saying they love rugby but the moment the women's rugby come on they switch the channel kind of a thing what can we do to get over that kind of a prejudice of people you know to get them used to being wanting to watch rugby a little bit more you know how do we get over that kind of a like i said prejudice yeah you know what you got what you're doing at the moment is exactly what we need supersport is doing it you know the exposure they gave us in the world cup suddenly they're giving us games and they're putting our players on on national television the whole time so that's that's the biggest thing you can do so for everyone to talk about it you know and and once they talk about it the ball is done our core to produce and and thankfully that happened in the world cup you know for us uh we never beat the black ferns but 10 all half time uh you know that that's got everyone talking and uh and for us to beat italy they were ranked seventh and we were 13th at that big stage and then that's such a convincing convincing way that got people talking as well so uh i think on your question you know what can we do is just keep on talking about it and the more the people talk the more we should just produce or play exciting brand or try things or and then try and be role models especially for young girls who wants to start playing the game because we've got to change that thinking as well you know if you look at the top schools, especially the COVID schools I spoke to, where you've got hockey, netball and the stigma of girls shouldn't play rugby. If we can start breaking that, and we've got a few girls already now that's joined us and our team to come. So keep talking and join Willowick even more. I think that's kind of a good segue.

I'd like to segue into that Rugby World Cup, but before I do that i just want to make a confession five years ago i would have been one of the people that said that i don't know that woman i didn't know that women played rugby and i don't know that rugby is the best sport for women but i am i was just an idiot and completely wrong and i would say there are two things if i look at it from a business perspective like world rugby is trying to grow the game i see the women's game as the most likely candidate to grow the game substantially over the the next five years. And secondly, I really am enjoying watching women's rugby. It's not like a, it's different than the men's game, but it's, I just want to confess my sins and my ignorance. And I wasn't one of the, they should be in the kitchen. I just want to make that clear.

But I do want to transition to the World Cup, which I followed religiously. My first game that I watched live was the Babas game at DHL Stadium. I think you were already the coach there. And that was my debut. And that was just a good first game.

But Libby said it's okay for one year to talk about the Rugby World Cup still. And so I want to ask you, because it was something where I felt like the SA team went up a year And I wanted to ask you about the Italy game specifically The last two minutes we up by five points We have a penalty just outside their 22 And then it seems like a lifetime expires. And with the clock running out, the ball's rolling into our in-goal area. And we're chasing it to stop Italy from scoring. What did that last two minutes feel like for you?

How stressful was it? What was going on in the coach's box? I tell you what, what happened there, we were sort of dominant at that stage. There was a wind blowing as well. And the girls don't kick it so far for poles.

And we were scared. It was two minutes ago. We go for a kick. They must have kicked that play down in our area again. But then, before we could really get the call on, you know, that what we really want, we picked the scrum, if you can recall.

And something happened. And that's the only scrum in the whole World Cup that didn't go our way. and it was a short arm to them and they started playing and they almost, yeah, but we scrambled well there. But that was just one of those and I remember going down that far touch line and eventually we got the ball back and we got it under our poles and Libby kicked that ball and it was coming straight to us where we were sitting and I realised that Winga's going to catch it and if she catches it, it's all gone. But I promise you what, it was just a miracle that happened there.

happened there. The ball just drifted away. But a meter or two and bounced and went out. And that was the end. I've never seen a ball do that.

I don't know if it was the wind from the tunnel coming through there or what happened there. But it was one of those miracles, you know, that I saw another miracle that happened on that whole World Cup. While we're talking about miracles, we never had injuries. I've never been in a super rugby with Rossi and them all over the show with campaigns. Injuries are such a big part of the game, but our medical team under Doc Moshe, and really with the grace of God, we just had no injuries or no problems.

Have you ever heard about that in your life, Paul? So that was unreal. That's why we had a little song there as well that we played once or twice called Miracle on Miracle on Miracle. And it became almost, we did say, we, you know, we were a miracle team and it felt like that right to the end, you know, especially if you look at the way we were and what happened. If you're 13th in any World Cup coming there and you make the top eight, we don't know if we came five, six, seven, eight, but we made the quarters and lost against New Zealand.

But, you know, that for us was a miracle as well. So, in a way, it feels like that was almost our World Cup final, the game against Italy. I don't mean to diminish what we did against New Zealand a few weeks later. Can you talk a little bit about how it felt? I re-watched the game and the celebrations of the girls, the women on the field.

But can you talk about how it felt in the locker room when you guys were there and what did you say to the team after that win? when firstly, firstly, Francois Davids, our Deputy President, was sitting right on the right-hand side of me. He joined us on the tour as well. And as we won, I had my hands up in the air and he grabbed me and I think I pulled a muscle in my neck. That was the only injury.

That was not a miracle for sure. But we were still breaking. We couldn't keep quiet. And you know, the whole vibe. When we came down in the change room, Paul, if you guys thought it was a celebration on the field, you'd have heard those girls, how they carried on.

And all the other teams and officials at World Cup states just couldn't believe this bunch of South African girls being so crazy and so happy and so excited. But it was surreal. It was really surreal. It was like I couldn't believe it. It was like one of those things in sport, you know, you hope for it, you train for it, you pray for it, you do everything you must and then it happens.

So people asked me the other day, I had a little breakfast, I did a talk, you know, what in my rugby career of 35 years, what was the highlight? And I say that game against Italy, with all the, you know, we beat with the men's, we beat the All Blacks in Wellington, 36-35. We had, I had so many, so many good super rugby memories and stuff. But if people ask me, really, that game against Italy to make the quarters was so, so special. One of those to remember.

I can't remember much. It was too surreal, really. I just remember it was crazy. I'm embarrassed to admit, not embarrassed, but when I re-watched it this weekend, I cried even though I knew the result and I'd already watched that end so many times. It was so emotional.

It was just, I understand why you said that. Can we transition to the New Zealand game? I'm going to skip the French game. The New Zealand game, there were two things that stood out for me. The first thing was that you already mentioned.

At halftime, the score was 10-all against a team that had typically dominated us in the past. What were you guys talking about at halftime? Yeah, but before halftime, we came with a plan against them. we got to starve them from the ball because when teams at our development stage last year, when teams take us wide, wide, wide with good skills, they burn us wide. They beat us wide.

And it was almost a case I've said to the defense coach Bafana, the easiest way to defend these burns is to keep the ball. And we did slow the game down, I can admit it now, almost to a blurred stage in that first half. We had a little call there that we called chocolate and one of the props would just go down and it irritated the ferns and it irritated everyone and the refs. And then the two charmers we had, you know, we had those two 14-man line outs which worked like a charm and that gave us confidence. And we set up a mall from a scrum because we didn't want to open the game up whatsoever uh those ferns of joy with miller and those players that they have if they turn you over you stand behind the sticks what happened the second half we ran out of steam but but uh yeah that first off was unreal sadly me and my two coaches on the way up to the coaching box that we didn't see the first two tries of the ferns in the second half we were stuck there and left sort we came in three four five minutes late in there i said guys it's 10 all we can't be it now no now coach they scored twice outs 20 they scored converted now they're now it's 22-10 out of the blue you know so uh looking in hindsight that we they kicked off caught the ball in the air great jump from their 13 center and from there they scored within the first seconds of the second half and that sort of was the puncture for our goals you know uh and then we came back we scored again i think we just got two more tries after that we made it competitive and And for me, that was so nice.

Last week when we spoke to Libby, can I just say what a character. We were blown away by her personality. Honestly, I think you're one of the best ambassadors you can possibly ask for women's rugby. But we asked her about that 15-man plan when you first told them about your idea. And what would you think?

And she said, when Sway says it's an idea, we're just going to do it. We're not questioning anything. What's your feedback from the team, your relations with the team are like, when you come up with these schemes? Because like you just said, you have to be a bit more clever. You box a bit more clever than other teams, I suppose.

How did they respond to your ideas and your coaching and the likes? Yeah, you said, no, I want you to coach the women's rugby. I said, what team? He said, no, the Springbok women's rugby. I said, oh, that's it.

Now you've got me thinking. When that idea, it was a Sunday night, and I was finished with my prep for preparation for them and the defence coaches and Frana and Lorien, my scrum and line-out coach, they were finished and we sort of had a plan to be conservative. And that morning, five o'clock, I couldn't sleep and I told my wife, joined us then, there in the World Cup and I said, Marilis, we've got to do something else. We've got to come with something. And she said, no, no, come with your plans now again.

it's World Cup, it's this and that. I said, no, we have to. And then the idea stuck that what about we do this? You know, the plans I had. So we were supposed to be at 8 o'clock with Coach Frana, his brilliant coach, him and Laurie, and I, I'm so blessed to have them.

I said to Frana, guys, we need to meetings at 9, we need to meet at 7. We can't just go in the field and play the ferns. They'll pump us. Not just what we want. and I started drawing and I said to him, Frana, this is my plan.

You're the line-out coach. What do you think? How do you see it? And he went quiet and looked at me and he said, brilliant plan. Let's go for it.

And Lorien, we're a bit more conservative. Are you sure, coach? And she looked and said, okay, let's go for it. So the condition in Nars was there and he said, oh, what a plan. So suddenly you think it's a massive plan And now to sell it to the players.

Because we already sort of had our blueprint, how we're going to play them. And all the girls in at nine. And I said, guys, this is what we're going to do. They'll never expect it. In fact, you know, if Nadine takes that ball and then Dolphy, the fullback.

And we had to go out there and spend the whole morning to coach the backs, how to set, where to put the heads in. Remember these girls, some of them haven't played rugby for long. Now you're in the World Cup stage against New Zealand and they're going to set up malls, you know, so it was the two perfect malls. You can't believe it. You can see, I don't know if you see, if you saw the footage.

They were pumping It was just unreal And that mall we set up next to the scrum that was even better That gave us a penalty We kicked it out and we try and respond again So, yeah, the plan worked. It was about a 48-minute first half with all the little injuries and stuff and slowing the game down. It's not always so sporty to slow the game down, but, you know, you're desperate. You've got to do some desperate steps. desperate times call for desperate measures i wanted to ask you russi russi famously you know when he planned to take a scrum in the world cup in 2023 remember and damon well i said that that he had to check with the ref beforehand if it's even legal did you ever did you have to phone jacquette paper or somebody to say is it even legal because the referee apparently was quite taken aback by others she didn't know if it was legal or not kind of thing i i uh straight away when i when i got the idea i found any uh uh amy barrett she was from south africa brilliant and she was there with the world cup was one of the top refs i said amy uh we've got a a plan is that gonna work and she laughed she said so is your plans so i said amy tell me just tell me uh should we say it's 14 men uh should we wait should we have a quick throw what should we you know give us a bit of guidance and she did she spoke to frana the line out coach as well and and she blessed it she said what a plan what a brilliant idea now i heard a podcast of the ref she by the way was very good and and and wanted to to help us with this with this plan and and and she was uh she said that uh i never told her but but amy did amy just stopping the blow for us and uh explain this the mall next to the scrum in fact what happens and ask her don't go obstruct you will make sure that we come through and so that the back of the player turning before we pack in is proper and solid.

I still laugh for that one, but that is great. I must say, with Rossi and the move, we call it the move, when you set up that wall in the midfield as well. Rossi always had that planned years back before the world cup and he waited and he waited and he used it then so uh yeah there's the old song uh that they say i don't know last time if i told you the you gotta know when to hold and know to unfold it the gamblers the name of the song so it was a bit of gambling but it's beautiful you know we didn't count our money till before the time how did the song go it just worked and that that's that's why if people ask me that was so memorable at that stage It was a full house. So the World Cup, I often say two things that seem like they're opposing can be true at the same time. So the World Cup definitely, in my mind, announced South African women's rugby on the world stage as kind of the scary group.

I really do think what Envy has said is true. People are kind of looking at us and thinking, this is going to be scary in five years. And we became number 10 in the world. We beat Italy for the first time. We made the quarter.

but at the same time it kind of showed the gap between us and what I'd call the top tier like England and Canada and New Zealand and stuff and so if you look at it now where are you what is your discussions with the team and your coaches about this is realistically the gap and this is what we've got to do to now go to the next step being number 10 is really good but we want to be like the top, I'm assuming, the top six, the top five soon. Oh yeah, that's our aim. We've got to strive, we've got to aim for the best, we've got to, we want to make, we want to really go for top four and then 20-29 in Sydney. Yeah, now that's absolutely the aim. Yeah, you know, that's, if you ask me, what is the difference when the Ferns play the Roses, that's now the England team, how do they fill up Twickenham for a game like that?

They just, at this stage, our biggest work on, if I want to compare, is total conditioning for all the players. You know, their forwards can run. I always look like a boxing ring effect. We can box for a minute and we can be competitive per round for a minute, but we can't go for three minutes. And if the game opens up.

So my first step for the next two years, in fact, is we've got to have a concerted effort to get the girls to be more athletic and conditioned conditioned and be able to run and play more if you want to play the total game. That is definitely the one thing. The other one that we need a concerted effort on is everything about defense and the tackle technique and the different systems. And, yeah, so, you know, that's one big, big work on for us is to get that sorted out. And then the third one that we need to play off quicker ball and play more phases, not just pick and go and through the middle.

We've got to be able to play a total game. So our third pillar that we need to fix is all about the breakdown. That's why I've got Dwayne Vermeulen came as well to help us with that. Now already last week. So that's our three first steps to get it in the right direction.

Can I ask you, I've heard you on a couple of different interviews say, you wish you could just have some players with more speed. I guess especially in the back line and on the edges. What is the talent pool looking from? You've just had your first alignment camp. There are a bunch of young uncapped players in that, etc.

What is the talent pool looking in terms of the near future for this team? It's looking good. Again, through Dave Vessels, we're going to start a full-on academy. In fact, it started already. Bafana and Klerko are going to be the coach for that as well.

and we all will work together to make sure in a 20 group and then the next group, we call it the hunters group, are there and they got to hunt for position and they know as well. They know what is our weaknesses. Look, we mustn't get away from our DNA for our big, strong forward packs and scrumming and stuff as well. But if you ask me if you want to be competitive, the whole focus has got to shift to more total rugby and to get a bigger player pool. And then the other thing, end of the year we're going to after the the test we're going to play there's going to be a full-on competition uh that you know that we're just going to work on on uh playing strength versus strength because if you play strength versus strength the whole time pull up the the competition at the moment you've got the blue bulls who's too dominant as far as i'm concerned they're brilliant and i took my take my hat off to them uh and and and you know bolon gave them a run in the final but through the season up to up to now again we we need and you know with the bulls they almost never defend because they always have the ball so so we're not growing nationally by by just having one strong franchise uh we need that's why i back the system of sr up we know in the high performance that we go towards more towards uh our own academy and strength versus strength and then all those girls come in and they live in stellenbosch for big times of the year and a lot of camps and stuff the that's now the hunters group and the player group it's the next best but speed is speed is a i gotta let you tell you guys about this plan that louie kuhn and sticky and stuff at we had a meeting we're bringing crossover athletes you know this uh from various sports and from what is this one this cross then the one where they i forgot the name now man uh t cross or crossfit yeah so they already we're already at camps where we've got the four top crossfit girls testing them see if they can add we've got another camp going and then my next plan is to see if we can bring those girls they first on their own we're louie and sticky and then work with them see if i can bring them into us and see how they compete but there's already one or two that uh you know me being a bit crazy i want to pull them in straight away uh so so so that's exciting that's the sort of thing if we can get away and I mentioned it earlier from the traditional girls play netball just a hockey or that thing if we can get them at all levels you can be a professional if you turn to rugby there's a career for you it's growing so once that finish dropped the sky will be the limit You talked about strength versus strength 14 tests this year from what I can gather two of them against the USA and most importantly against the Black Ferns coming to South Africa, sort of a replay of that World Cup quarterfinal.

But for me, the most exciting thing is you play the Black Ferns on the same day as the Springboks play the All Blacks, sort of a curtain raise, if I'm not mistaken. That's something special, isn't it? Yeah, we had it in PE and it was working so well. And Charles Vesselsson and Rossi said, you know, we had a team photo. It was unreal, guys.

We had a team photo in front of the Springbok Hotel. were the first time ever with the springbok and uh men and women on the same picture so all our coaches were there and they were there and that was unreal the way they interacted and the way the men's the men players the men rugby players embrace the women and make them feel welcome and we're proud of you and keep going and so to have it again and at a big stage it's going to be a massive stage and our curtain raise at time will be a bit closer to them as well so you know i know there's imp and everything running on but but that's that's the idea that people must come and see the women play but i tell you guys i'm already nervous for some of those games i can imagine uh i was going to ask you i just i i saw you on an interview say on offloading there are certain players for you that were never allowed to offload and some that were could offload like actually his name on on our podcast i'm never allowed to ask analytical questions like i'm I'm supposed to be the fan guy, but I do want to ask you, when you came with your background of the Lions, I mean, you're an attack-minded coach. Everything I read about you, you are an attack-minded coach. You like moving the ball, keeping it alive. Did you, when you took over the women's team, have to make like a decision about the style that you wanted to play and that they could play And it feels to me like forward strength and dominance just like it is on the men side has become a part of your game Is that like an intentional decision or how have you figured out the balance of style that you want this team to play?

To be quite honest with you, I had to change my DNA a bit and my DNA was, I want to see how we can run from everywhere and not play in the right place spaces or places so necessary but play the opportunity the whole time if there's even if we under our sticks it doesn't matter where we are if we feel we've got the ascendancy we play and we want to play fearless that was that's that's my dna but i grew up with with neil my son as well you had that podcast with him the other day as well and that's in his DNA as well. Now, we're virtually now almost in the same boat. Now, I've got a team with the player profile says, big forwards, strong, pick and go, and we made it our strength. I would have been foolish before the World Cup to try and force my style of play, and this is the player profile. But now that we've got time and building to 29, we can start building those blocks to play more open total rugby.

Yeah, I'm not an offload coach because I believe offloads is, if it's not perfect, when it works and you're through the tackle and there's a time for that. But I like to set the phases up and I've got certain principles that I apply on attack. And we introduced it to the girls, but what I picked up straight away, they love the pick and go, the contact, they close the playoff nine, and it gave us a big reward. and the other teams in the world they're not so used to it they want to play they open and and they're most of the top teams like canada and and even though the usa we're going to play especially england man they they they can mix it they england can mix you up front and wall and scrumming and play it while now we only had that one component up to now we were good and close for confined spaces numbers are over the ball then we were really fine we compete with everyone but But it's now time to start building the total game. But if you play like the other overseas country from a young age, the skill of passing and stepping and stuff has developed almost for 10, 12 years before they play rugby.

A lot of our girls start playing after school. So we've got to teach them first to keep the ball and go forward and the shortest way to the try line. not necessarily play around teams, but three teams. If you look at how to get your team to the next level, how much of your time is spent sort of with the existing players, X's and O's, fitness, training, conditioning, all of that, versus how much do you have to spend on the grassroots of trying to develop and find the next players, and then even on the marketing of the game and sponsorships and stuff like that that will help it grow. How's your time divided in those buckets?

I must say, again, we've got a full-on recruiting department now. The sponsors came on board, Pick and Play and FMB. I can't mention Hyundai and all of them, they're on board. So I can now focus just on my job at hand, if you understand me and my coaches. I don't have to worry so much about recruitment or how to get the players.

I've got two of my coaches at the moment. there's a tournament in uh and an albert tonner and a 20 uh and a 20 tournament for all the provincial sites they there they're scouting for talent so it's a concerted effort from sarp it's a it's all run by by day vessels through his high performance department and so that we can focus just on our job event we are now almost like at the at the main side now when you where i focus on on everything between the four white lines and the rest as the rest of the the staff and the management and i'm very blessed with my coaches and my coaching team that i have and and we've got a full-time manager we've got a doctor the whole time with us the medical department is good so it's now run like a professional setup i would say uh you know almost there for the first time totally as a from the world cup going on now it's becoming more and more professional it almost feels like i'm coaching if i look at all the pillars of what you need to build a team that's there now so we don't we don't have any excuse the only thing we need to do is as as the marketing side of the players must love to come and play rugby the women girls must love to come and play rugby so we're looking i spoke to the tag guys the other day we've got some of the touch rugby girls involved now that we're testing and that's where there's a department looking after that so SA rugby realizes one thing, women's sport is the next big step that we must fall forward. It'll take time, but I think we've given the first steps. If you could say something to a younger girl or parents of a girl that are thinking about rugby, that are concerned about rugby, that would say this is why they should play this game, what would it be? Yeah, I just want to say, first all of us, change the mindset that it's a men's game.

It is not boxing or one of those. The laws protect them so much. They can only tackle and beneath the sternum. It's a clean, solid game and it's a very enjoyable game. And it's a game that shows how strong and powerful women are, Paul.

And it's a game that shows to everyone that they love the conflict situation. They love that. So I would say give it a go. And never force her down because not all girls are made for rugby. But those who are, who's got the God-given talent to play a game like rugby, have a look at the roses and those girls, man.

You know, I want to encourage those parents. Put on your TV, go on YouTube, just look at what happens with overseas ladies playing rugby. And they get contracts and they're made for life. Some of them are, because of rugby, it's got a fantastic career. So that is professionalism that I want to install for ladies in this country as well.

And we've got the backing of SA Rugby and like you guys are doing podcasts and helping us. That's what we need. But parents, it's not such a tough game as you think. It's much cleaner and they love it. Maybe your daughter will love it and then leave the rest to us.

And then my last question to you is, as you look towards the next World Cup and this year and the game against the All Blacks, if you had a magic wand that could change one thing in SA Women's Rugby, pick something, do something different, what would it be that you think would move the ball forward the most? I think the biggest thing is the paradigm shift of the thinking of it between all the girls and women and top schools and private schools and that rugby should become a school sport, the sooner the better. But because once it's a school sport, the grassroots rails are so much easier. So that'll be the very first step. And then secondly, I'm very confident what's going to happen with the academy that started at SA Rugby, that the growth will be there.

The biggest thing for me, as you asked me, is let's get the girls. Let's get them. Once we get them, then you'll see how it flies. Because we're tough in this country. We've seen it in all sports.

Our girls getting more exposure and we get the top athletes and the sprinters involved in rugby. You'll be amazed what we can do. We can be like the men and win the World Cup. Swayze, first of all, genuinely, sincerely, what an honor to talk to you. And at this stage of the women's rugby game, I am just so excited.

And I can't wait to see that game at FNB Stadium, live in the stadium and watch them on TV. I just feel there's something building here that's going to be amazing, that we're going to look back at in four or five years and say we witnessed the birth of South African rugby on the world stage. So it's just an honor. thank you for making time. I know you were very busy.

I really appreciate it. No, no, no. I'm not so busy. I'm watching school's boy rugby all day and now I'm going to watch 20s play against Argentina. That's going to be a massive game.

Let's shout for those boys as well. I just wanted to say, like you said, we interviewed Neil last week and it's interesting to me how the DNA runs in the family. The rugby DNA, I asked him, I teased him him whenever you got rugby in his porridge every morning. But your son is a credit to you. I thank God for the blessing to have three boys like that and my wife.

But people don't know my wife was a very successful netball coach and that's where the boys get the idea of the attacking the spaces I think more from me. And our other son who's in London ran the London Marathon on Saturday. And yeah and Jamie the third boy he was now at the Voletlava festival while Neil is flying back from the bulls so you can imagine this this family is just rugby rugby rugby and then suddenly i've got to be look like i'm an athlete and say well go for that marathon we're just very blessed thank you and then you guys your help and what you give to us as well and uh thanks so much and we keep doing it no we're definitely going to keep doing it gonna have many more spring walk women lined up to talk to you as well um libby is helping us with that so again we'd like to to talk to you again in future. We want to do our bit here and get people to not switch the channel. Stay tuned for it.

Watch it. And we'll do what we can. Thank you, Spice. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

God bless you guys as well. Thank you.

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