Strife Rumours at the Stormers, URC Playoffs and European Cup Finals Preview | Lekker Rugby Pod

Nbya from the Stormers Lacquer Rugby Pod. He literally introduced you in a proper press conference as Stormers Lacquer Rugby Pod. Yeah, he did. How did that feel? You know, I would say that the Bulls might be caught out by the style of play, but you know, you look at Bordeaux being in the Champions Cup final, and they're playing even more helter-skelter.

So, yeah, I think you can do it if you have two packs, and the Bulls have two packs, two full packs they can put on the field. Stormers seem to be experiencing some internal strife. I don't know if that's the right word. You agree if I'm wrong, but I think there's something going on there. Maybe it's just me leaking my wounds, want to lash out a bit, but what's going on there?

Where is it not okay? It's not okay if you're not pulling for each other, then on game day it starts to affect your play. I don't think Dabo worries about some of that, you know, maybe that's what he wants to see. Yeah, I'd almost go further. I'd say it's fury.

You know, probably there's some like Japanese or Germans tend to have words we don't have. It's probably like self fury fury at self. Let's put it that way The cool thing about rugby is you get to channel all that you get to make Cardiff wish they hadn't come down to Cape Town And you can just shut people up This is the Lekker Rugby Pod only on Megaphone Rugby Welcome to the Lekker Rugby Pod another classic episode Harry I'm still licking my wounds after I was accused of being Stormers Lekker Rugby Pod by the Bulls on Saturday night I mean, that was just, you know, I was taking it back. What do you think? Let's just set the stage.

So you're saying, is Clinton the media manager? Yeah. He literally introduced you in a proper press conference as Stormers Lacquer Rugby Pod. Yeah, eat it. How did that feel?

I was really taking it back. I know it was, you know, I mean, tongue in cheek and we've got a good relationship. It actually opened the door for me to organize a coach and player series for us with the Bulls as well. like you've been able to do with the stormers but i know i mean i understand why but i thought it was quite funny you one thought it was funny as well which i which i was quite relieved about yeah i was laughing about it and um it's actually quite fun everybody laughed so that was funny as well yeah we're like we're like kids using the mother and the father against each other you know like we're going to the dad and saying oh but mom told me we could do this and then and and so they're competing with each other to be the cool parent so at this point i i say yes if they're they think in that way more likely to uh produce some sort of coach player series or something different maybe actually i'd love to hear from the viewers and listeners you know that series itself obviously is interesting and different but we're open to all kinds of things i've actually long thought about the relationship between the physio and the players the doctor and the players that's interesting stuff too i mean there's some probably some limits to where they can go but um no i think that's a good sign it is funny isn't it that our two teams sit here um you know i'm we're embroiled in the soap opera and you're sitting pretty with people throwing toilet paper rolls at the top of your own akerman's head uh in some sort of funny you know video it's like it's all peaches and cream fun and games uh up at loftus and in cape town it's and uh nefarious stories and scurrilous stories and rumors oh we saw the social media posts i mean some very suspect theme for social media accounts there i mean you really see it the lux auto magazine or something weird and ridiculous but the point is where they smoke this fire you know and we talk about all being kumaya by the bulls and i mean in the best possible way i'm one of those you know big happy singers along with it but uh stormers seem to be uh experiencing some internal strife i don't know if that's the right word you correct me if i'm wrong but i think there's something going on there and maybe it's just me licking my wounds i want to lash out a bit but yeah what's going on there yeah so dear audience i promise you i would know okay so that's the first thing please please accept the without having to prove credibility i literally know i would know okay second what is the fire like where the smoke is fire i think that's true probably but what is the fire so these articles that were going around when i clicked on them first of all it takes you to buy a mattress or something and you know or something yeah hijacks your whole phone that's the first of all i would doubt that they have diagnosed the fire correctly smoke yes but fire what is it so okay i guess three myths that people have you know there's never fights and strife inside a club there's always fights and strife and kind of fight a club imagine your own family but then add you know 50 60 80 people with different stakes soldiers and envies and and uh and and you know jealousies it's gonna happen and then put on top of that that you lose you lose a really bad one um the the guy that's been sort of in charge of your soul your conscience has passed away and you're still grieving off that um you've been on the road it's not going quite right all the things that were going right not going right okay so young men who are who are in a practice trying to prove that they should be the guy and they should be the they're gonna fight literally fight this is normal so i'm kind of giving you a little bit of it maybe i'm giving you a better one of the smoke um and i'm gonna say this as a coach you want to see a bit of that there were some fights in i could name the clubs i know some of them some of the top top clubs i'm talking about throw down mma grappling to the ground having to pull you off type fights that's okay um where is it not okay it gets not okay if you're not pulling for each other that on game day it starts to affect your play so that's what the i don't think dabo worries about some of that you know maybe that's what he wants to see what he described to me personally was that that was the hardest loss you know they thought connacht was actually cardiff was it was stunning um so many things that really have been bedrock in the stormer season went the other way they fell the way of cardiff carter found the edge three times for three tries um that hasn't been that easy to do because the stormers have had the most stingy try defense they've been the most um gain line denial team and the game line didn't go our away. If you built a lot of your logic around game line dominance and you get dominated on the game line and they find the edge on you and you have the players that you think you want there, you know, you have Volemsa at the back, you have Sasha pulling the strings at 10, you have Imad Khan, he's not Kubas Reinhardt yet, but he's a good player and he was getting people into space.

why weren't they able to punch through so you know i would say the soap opera stuff that's going on on facebook and and various social media the smoke is conveying the fire of deep frustration of deep unrest of probably different people having different ideas like we should be doing this coach no says the other guy we should be doing that uh the problem is this guy no the problem is that guy That stuff is normal in any team that has two gut-wrenching losses and is poised now to sort of have an embarrassing end or incredible resurrection in the playoffs. So, you know, we're about to tell, right? But that makes everyone nervous. And everyone's on a knife's edge. You know, it's time for the shrink.

It's time for soul-searching. It's time for... Sometimes you have players-only meetings in groups even. and let me just say this you have to say things that people don't like it will sound like a fight you might even say things in those moments that sound like it's me or him or you know i'm done with this you're not really okay this happens in any team and the people who react to that strangely i always think it's because you haven't been on a team before you haven't really had those kind of conversations losing sucks losing is the worst and if you lose twice and you kind of feel you're losing momentum it's easy to start pulling uh pointing fingers the stormers um decline at the end here is not down to one person it's not down to there's no scapegoat here like it's some it's an easy computer over the roos that's sort of everyone's go-to right and then and if that fails and they go to sasha um that's all it so there's a a systemic problem of an attack system that is designed not to leave the Stormers in the lurch when they lose the ball. And so it's built a really good tries against Total, a low one.

It built a position on the log. On the games where that defense failed, Ulster, Connacht, and Cardiff, it looks like we have to blame the attack. but in fact you know it was letting in so many points that suddenly put everyone into a bind the second part is that attack attack has had problems when it goes beyond five phases when it's not ending in a kick and it's not ending in a score so you don't score try you don't get to kick relief you're in the red zone because it's weird to kick there um and you run out of cleaners for carries. That's what everyone's inside the Stormers camp trying to solve for. They've got some time here to look at that.

Don't be surprised, guys, that if Cardiff comes to Cape Town and gets absolutely monstered with all that pent-up frustration, internals, literally rolling around and fighting over it, don't be surprised if that spirit comes out in the proper way. On the other hand, I get the smoke. I get it. it's like it's obvious like there was smoke earlier in the bull season the dip in the bulls occurred in the right time of the season so you can kind of keep growing um this is a very very bad timing for the stormers it's not that simple harry you know the bulls that happened but some major changes were made to be able to accommodate that we'll get back to that just a bit now he dropped a couple of breadcrumbs there i don't know if it was intentional by accident deep unrest. Is that true?

I mean, is that an accurate statement? I don't think so. Because of satisfaction, dissatisfaction with ourselves. Because there are people in that team that are proud players, proud coaches who don't feel like they gave their best. It's hard to fault Rito.

Schlungwani. Basically, his pack played out of their skins in Cardiff. They did fine in Ulster. They did. It's more in the backline and it's positioning, it's playing in the right spaces.

It's little things like maybe keeping the ball sometimes instead of trying for the extra sometimes just go through the phases one more time or back yourself. So there's several times when there's been runaways I think if Sasha keeps the ball under his arm and just runs he scores. You don't always have to satisfy Hugh Griffin with one more try assist. He's like a hawk watching you. Waiting for any weakness.

You must ask more. Like, no, maybe don't. I said that I think there's several times where you just put the ball under your arm and go. And the other thing is your decision making where you're trying to speed up is really difficult. I've always followed the adage, don't confuse motion with action.

So if something is just looking like a lot of motion, it doesn't mean something's happening. So I think, and I'm not going to get into all the niceties because I've been talking with Stormers and they're talking with themselves. And I think we could say the issue is well-known. So it's about solving the issue. And I prefer to solve this issue than have a pack that cannot scrum or a lineup that's leaking or not winning, you know, mall drives.

That's there. So it's about using the ball correctly on the front foot. And that's actually a good problem to have, except it's super frustrating to have at this point in the season. This is the point of the season usually where you think now we're just honing little things and twisting things. I guess that's the part I'm talking about.

There's unrest in why we're still trying to figure out what to do when we're 10 meters from the line and we have good clean ball and we're on second phase. And then we're in fifth phase and suddenly it always seems to crater We don get back into the shape People in the wrong spot there people flying around running in the wrong spot um the team that it looks like back in the test level was the wallabies for a while they just didn't have the people in the right spot and you know it's hard to do that if you keep having quick rock quick right quick rock so you never have time for 13 to get back to 13 and you never have time for 15 to be in the right slot to to provide the overlap because he's on the other side of the field yeah so it's not actually undressed i mean i wanted to call you out of that because it sounded worse than it is i mean you think under his team riots and you know stones being thrown backdrop bombs and things being set to life it's not what it is i got the impression that's deep disappointment you know the stakes were quite high home semi-final suddenly slipping away you know that's the kind of impression that i got and then obviously people are going to get frustrated things are going to boil over a little bit you know emotions more than anything yeah i'd almost go further i'd say it's fury but it's you know probably there's some like japanese or germans tend to have words we don't have it's probably like self fury fury at self um let's put it that way and that's familial that is you know it's a lot of emotions and they can all get into a big bundle and the good thing and i just texted this to dabo actually is the cool thing about rugby is you get to channel all that you know you get to make cardiff wish they hadn't come down to cape town and um and you can just shut people up and there's a great way to do it is to perform yeah under pressure you know early in the season the bulls had a lot of naysayers and and i think the naysayers were right um and and then they were probably things we didn't know about behind the scenes so it's the same kind of thing and guess what the way they shut people up is to perform uh week on a weekly basis and then now we feel comfortable i think most of the south african fans are saying the bulls have a good shot here um but but i would you know munster is a difficult team to play uh cardiff just proved that they could be difficult um the opposition has a say saying this, but I still think it's cool that it's home quarterfinals. Our two teams evenly matched, almost uncannily with points differential. Exactly matched. 160.

Both the best in the league at that. You know, just the same number of wins when it all came down on the wash. Same number of wins. I guess one fewer loss by the Stormers because of the draw. Facing Munster and Cardiff, I guess we'd both say those are okay opponents to have.

You know, if we take care of business, the Bulls and the Stormers should win those matches at home. And then, you know, no matter what, you're going to have to beat a Glasgow or a Leinster. Okay, so let's get over that. But in the end, this is just part of the tournament. is those two teams are always sitting there looking like potential obstacles.

So, you know, would the Bulls and the Stormers at the beginning of the season, preseason, if you said this is where you'd be, would they have taken it? I think both would have said, sure, let's go. Yeah, definitely. I agree with you. So the point is just, isn't it karma that it's Cardiff again?

You're talking about deep frustration and fury or whatever. I mean, I wouldn't want to be in Cardiff's shoes. I've just got a feeling like you just said they're going to be blown away might be a little bit too late to overcome that kind of feeling but at least into the semifinals which we'll talk to you about just now. Let's just go back to the Bulls quickly. You talked about in the middle of the season they made some pretty radical changes there in the sense that they got rid of two of their long time assistant coaches, got Neil the Brain in from nowhere basically and the best possible way was at a high school after coaching in Japan and the likes.

And it seems to be working now. I'm quite happy to say that it's working. And you and I have actually learned a bit about how the Bulls are thinking, listening to what they were saying. What are your impressions of what's going on at the Bulls in terms of the way they approach their game plan? We talked about the cattle.

Is this going to be knockout rugby? Are they going to be caught out short by playing this kind of rugby? Is it maybe a season too soon next year it will be better? What are you expecting there? Yeah, I would say that the Bulls might be caught out by the style of play.

But, you know, you look at Bordeaux being in the Champions Cup final and they're playing even more helter-skelter. So, yeah, I think you can do it. If you have two packs and the Bulls have two packs, two full packs they can put on the field, most of them capped, most of them test internationals. If you have a good 9-10-15 game drivers and decision makers, very difficult to go beyond Vili Andre on experience and then the form of Ambrose has been next level and then you have finishers, those finishers is probably what the Stormers are lacking right now on the wings, not only finishing their chances but also extinguishing others, so the Bulls have the proper setup Neil de Brayne's been his work, his handiwork has been very impressive, it's hard for me to know exactly who did what and but if you just take that one that one thing you could say yes and then the ability the generosity of johan ackerman to let someone else lead and and not squish it all and have to sort of choke all the oxygen out of the room we have to give him credit for that and that's an under underrated skill because you know bosses like to be bossy and it seems like he's got that in his locker. He's got the ability to step back and to make fun of himself a bit.

But the test, the acid test is about to come. A street savvy team like Munster is used to winning games that they should lose. They're used to making it... Munster's good at making the score ugly and the game ugly. So just this is exactly the test for Johan and his his team of characters is can you stay true to the idea of keeping the ball alive, having a lot of attack sets, taking a few risks that you might not have and keep attacking just break them down in the end and put them away or can Munster take you out on a limb a rotten limb of a tree and just kind of snap you off at the end uh that's to me a wonderful test uh you know if they can get through that one then they'll face more of the same you know some old ghosts so i would think if you're in the bulls nation there's something about this that's both exciting and there's a little bit of oh shit here we are you know this is here we go again you know are we gonna run into franku are we gonna run in like where are we going next um and then if everything goes the way you and i would like it it'll be stormers and bulls in the final yeah you know is definitely everyone's favorite can you imagine i know double was looking forward to that kind of an opportunity i'm sure you're honest because we've lost to the stormers twice this year the bulls now i mean that's i just think they're meeting you know they're intersecting the bulls on the way up and the storm is on the way down maybe and maybe that's unkind to say that but definitely they've They've been dipping lately and the Bulls are on the way up.

It doesn't matter. It's knockout rugby now. All the directors on the day, Munster, you know, won one out of the last six away games. Lost 45-0 to the Sharks, battled against the Bulls, but gave them a bit of a run. Then ran away victors over Ulster.

And then, you know, the wheels coming off a little bit with the commissions of inquiry. To me, they're a bit of a worry, I'll be honest. You don't know what team's going to pitch up on the day. Bulletile, yeah It's just two games, right? I mean, Monsters case, just one But for Stormers and Bulls, it's like You know, someone's on the rise, someone's on the fall I don't know, Stormers handled Glasgow very well So you just go, what if we just put two games together And then you're in the final I think that's I think as a coach, Ackerman or a coach Dobson You can sell that to your team Have we had two games in a row this season That we've been superlative?

Yes, both of us, yes Can you do it now? Are you properly motivated? Are you tired of all the shit you've been doing? Are you ready to listen? Are you ready to hit things?

Do you want to make everyone shut up? Can we build an us against the world kind of thing? So Stormers can. For the Bulls, it's a little different. Like you are doing well.

Can you maintain it? For Munster, man, you know, what a sales... Like Clayton McMillan can just say, this has been a shit season. Let's be honest. like but what if what if we bring the whole thing down like blind samson you know just show me where the pillars are and let me just pull it all down imagine yeah shame i mean he's got a point to prove i would think yeah that's that's actually quite true i'm i'm very interested in the glasgow and i just got a sneaking suspicion let me talk about the teams on the way down glasgow's sort of slipping away here.

And I think Connacht, the rank outsider, I've got a feeling there's a surprise looming there. Yeah, these Irish teams. So Munster, Connacht, they're trouble. They are trouble. Nobody wants to play Connacht right now.

It's actually very bizarre that you know what, maybe six weeks ago, if you'd said, who do you want? You'd say if Connacht is in there, Ulster, let's take it. Konaug is not only playing well and playing better than they were playing all season. They're playing tough, angry, like they're belligerent. They seem to have no fear.

They seem to want to start fights. And Gronje will attest, they're finishing them. They are finding a way to finish those fights. So it's not, you know, no one's begrudging them. I don't think everyone's starting to like them a bit.

I think Konaug has picked up fans. including maybe the two of us that didn't we didn't even care before and now i'm kind of i'm quite interested in this i think that'd be fun um you know i i i think the the most likely upset and i don't think upsets will happen so just to be clear i think all the favorite teams will go through but i think that's monster because of their pedigree you think it's conuk because um they don't give a shit right now they're just taking a free swing and they've got a incredibly good coach. Yeah. But of course, if Connacht loses against Glasgow, beats Glasgow and the Bulls beat Munster, the semifinal will be at Loftus. There you go.

I'll take that any day. Thank you very much. Yeah. And then we'd have to go up and play in Dublin and then come down and have a home final against the Bulls. So, look, there's a lot of things about to happen.

But what's cool about it is where our two teams sit, the basis, the formation of our whole pod, we couldn't have scripted it any better. And it's just hilarious. I mean, I just kept going down all the different numbers and I keep thinking, it's just a kick here and there. The difference in the two teams is a kick. Well, the difference in the teams is the Bulls scored 82 tries and the Stormers only scored 63.

Thank you very much. I mean, Neri, that's a dead giveaway. Give it, come on, admit it. Try concession. I'm a defensively based rugby fan.

I can't find that stat. What were the tries conceded? What were they? Tell me. I can't find that.

We conceded a lot less than you. Let's just say that. We're in the 40s and you're in the 50s. Okay. Now I have to backtrack a little bit.

Backpedal. That was the beginning of the season and end of the season. The Bulls conceded a lot of tries early. And to be fair, if we put arrows on this thing, we'd be worried. We don't like the Ulster 38-38.

Carter found the edge four times. That's all fair. We have some excuses. We have some context. Ruhan not being the 13th channel.

But I mean, in the end, it doesn't really matter, right? Let's see. Now the season starts. The whole season was just positioning, and now the season starts. We're not really surprised, are we, that Leinster's in the top two.

that if they weren't in the top two, it's almost alarming. They have, let's see, I counted them up. Leinster has 32 people in their, 32 players in their squad are Test Internationals. 32! Let's just sink that in.

You know what is it for the Stormers I don know five So that crazy At every position six test props three test hookers four locks And when I say they're tests, I mean, it's Sheehan and Kelleher, like the actual top two hookers for Ireland. It's not just they got a few caps, three tens, two nines, three centers, four wings. so Leinster's been underperforming and yet here they are just the right time just come here to spoil the party you mentioned, I think being a bit unfair here, we said the Stormers will, you know, if they win they'll go up to Leinster, to Dublin to play against Leinster we have to give some thought to the fact that the Lions are actually now on Irish team because they're going to stay behind there, it's going to be a home game for them as well apparently now they're going to afford the hotel ball, but anyway let's not assume that they're going to lose. These plucky Lions, yes, they've taken a bit of a dip in the last two games, but they won six in a row before that. If they could just go back to the kind of rugby that they were playing and they were beating everybody unexpectedly, I don't know why they suddenly changed towards the crunch bit of the season.

I wouldn't say they're going to beat Leicester, but they're probably going to give them a pretty damn good run for their money. Yeah, but they just lost so many players. I mean, our friend Ringo sent me the injury list incurred in that incredible match against Munster where there was the potential of a spitting action that in the end there was no evidence of but I mean, four of their best players, Moren van der Berg, Ruan Fenter, Henko van der Berg. I mean, it's the guts of the team. They could do it, but it would be one of the great upsets of Lyon's history.

it would be a bit like Kornacht winning in Cape Town how they came out of their skull celebrating I can't even imagine how unlikely a Lions win would be and how cool that would be and also it would happen post-Champions Cup so there's another thing there maybe Leinster could get dinged enough as well that it sort of evens up the scales yeah, the Lions have a week off but the other thing that could happen is they win and then now Leinster is really motivated to go for the double and they just steamroller. So I don't know. I just, if the Lions had their full cast of characters, their actual, the stars of the season, I would feel like they would give Leinster a hell of a battle one week post-Champions Cup. I just don't feel it right now with the best carriers out, the best cleaners out, you know, their sort of best buck. You know, yeah, I wonder about it.

Yeah, I've seen quite a few comments on our channel that said Linse doesn't care about the URC they only care about the Champions Cup but the point is let's say they lose against Bordeaux for the Champions Cup they're going to go to hell to leather to win the URC regardless of whether they like it or not and if they do win against Bordeaux and they win the Champions Cup they can go hell to leather against the Lions to make it a double like you just said I mean the Lions are up against it you're right and any of those injuries are they going to be back you know it's two weeks long enough or is it a long term thing they're question marks but it really tight and even if they do come back they still have that niggle. I don't think it's the kind of injuries that are slight. Like Ruan Nel could have played against Cardiff but the decision was since Storm was already in, do you want to risk your defensive captain for the three playoff rounds by re-injuring? No, so you keep them apart. But I don't think the Lions injuries in this case are like that.

I think they are legitimate question marks. Can they perform? Yeah, it looked pretty bad, actually, for Fenter. Yeah, and that just takes a lot of starts out of the pack. You know, Darbo says all the time you need two packs to win trophies.

And the Lions don't have two packs, so they cannot afford to lose these guys. You know, it's a cohesion, too. You know, just the changes on the eve of. You look at Leinster and their ability to... So, like, to your point about what's their why, Leinster's all about trophies.

They had four Champions Cup trophies, and then the last one was in 2018, and it's been a drought since then. They notoriously, infamously came up short in the ERC season after season until a year ago. But Nienaber and those guys, they're not brought in to do well. They're brought in to win a trophy. And so the pressure is great.

You saw it on Leo Cullen's press conference saying, you guys love to throw the boot in. and what he's just he's just trying to say uh we know we're judged on a higher standard we have to win trophies so and the problem with the cohesion factor for the leinster lions leinster also the lions is i think there's 10 players out of their team that went to black rock college that's a high school and 10 players went to st michael's that's a high school i saw those teams two teams play a year ago in Dublin and they're just powerhouse schools. There are 20 players out of a team that went to two schools. Can you imagine? And then 16 of them went to University College Dublin and five to Trinity College.

So when they drop a guy and they put another guy in, it doesn't really change them that much. Whereas if our Lions drop someone and put someone in right now, it can really, I think, change the dynamic. I'm cross fingers for Ringo's Lions I hope they do it I hope also they just give them like just a hell of a battle no matter what you know really tune them up give them a nice east ran massage and see what happens so that semi-final is going to be tough you know on the bodies just one thing about the Stormers one of the things you and I talked about over the weekend was the fact that they struggled to adapt to the 4G pitchers there's no more 4G pitchers here in any of the games potentially it's going to be at DHL Stadium Leicester doesn't have a 4G does it and then obviously the final is going to be at DHL again so you know it's all good all grass you know that bounce the bounce of the 4G it affects rucks more than anything and the way that the Stormers clean rucks their clean protocol, their ruck resourcing is different from the Bulls different from Glasgow it's almost like we will need to have a different ruck cleaning set up for the 4G pitches. You know, that being said, it was the first away loss of the season, but still, it hasn't looked good on 4G at all, and that's something that has to be addressed. The ball just doesn't seem to be nice and solid, you know, for nine to pick and go with.

There's just been a lot of bubbles. There's been a lot of bounces go the wrong way. Sometimes in sport, when you see that, it's like having a bad day. You go, this day is not really going right. I almost want to go back to bed and start over.

Sounds like my day. So I'm not trying to minimize it. And I hope everyone knows that I'm absolutely worried about all this. But I think sometimes things do go the wrong way all at once. All your appliances in the kitchen go out in the same week.

We all know that. They never go in a staggered fashion. so yeah i think this even the fights inside and the squabbles and the positioning it can create such self-fury i'm going to coin a word i'm going to find a way to there's some language out there that has this fury at self that i think we're going to just take it all out on on cardiff with this great game that we used to do before matches where you were just getting your hands right and it was like a quick quick quick and if you dropped the ball or you had a bad pass then you had to stand against the the wall and then we had you know we'd take pot shots at you you know just kick the ball as hard as we could at your bum and uh you know we called it uh so um i think sometimes. No, but hear me out. Like, we used to hate each other from that game.

Like, we would build so much animosity against each other. By the time we took the pitch, we were just ready to hit somebody. So I think the fact that you have two weeks of internal circular firing squad can be a good thing. Can be a good thing. I know it's not good right now, and there's going to be another Facebook post come out where they're going to misspell people's names.

They're going to call it the storm. and they're going to do things that you know should tip you off that it's not reliable but like you say it's there's a lot of fury inside stormers camp and i'm i'm looking forward to talking tomorrow um with imi khan and gareth wright the kicking coach you know imad khan young player such a young player it's got to be such an interesting experience for him you know to steer the ship because we play off nine a lot as all teams do and uh yeah so what's it like to be a young player on the eve of of this playoffs um i i'm so excited about the urk playoffs the way it's shaped has been the most it's it to me it's perfect um if i was the organizer of the urk i would like this a lot it's got all kinds of plot twists and revenge it's got lots of revenge in it which i like yeah i also like the news uh um schedule that came out for next year's tournament interestingly enough quite early up, I think. We'll talk about that another day. Just give it another bit of a glimpse. You know, you talked about Imi now.

What else have you got lined up? Have you got more lined up? You don't have to mention names, but we've got more of those lined up with the Stormers. I mean, on that subject, because we're now supposed to be the Stormers Lacquerack Report, we spoke to Edgar Raffa, the CEO of the Bulls, and we're going to be speaking to the head of recruitment at the Bulls, all and I this week as well. I mean, there's a lot of Bulls stuff, and we're desperately, and I mean desperately, trying to get the Lions to talk to us.

But yeah, so far we've been knocking our heads. Once we were bumping our heads against solid brick walls. So it's been a bit of a challenge. We're trying to... Daba and I have been talking about how to bring the series to a close.

And so Imad Khan, the former Bishop Scrum Off. And so next we think we go with Gaza, Damien Vilimsa, who's been quite featured in some of these soap opera stories. Let's just hear it from the horse's mouth. Couple him up with a truly insane, and I say this with much love, insane coach, Norman Laker, the defensive coach. Literally, if you're just around him for a while, you will laugh your arse off, you will crack up, you will giggle, but also he's like an intense man.

And you can see why the best defensive team in the Irk is still at the end of all this. And then finish up with Thabo himself and Sasha Feinberg and Gomazulu. Let's just go to the top. Let's just get the big ones and close it out. And I think that playlist will stand the test of time.

It'll be a nice box set. We have it on our platforms in that way. And we would say to coaches, just coaches out there, if you're coaching a high school, coaching a club, it's an excellent window into what an elite coach does to get people motivated and to acknowledge their errors, to get better. I think it's brilliant. So, yeah, we're hoping to take that sort of idea and spread it out to other teams.

Yeah, it's called Side by Side. That's what the playlist is called. It's on our channel. So all those are together. All those interviews are together.

And like you said, we're trying to roll it out. The Bulls definitely on board there. We'll make a plan just to get past the season, I suppose. We're getting a bit tight on time at the moment. So that's something to keep in mind.

All right. Let's talk about this European Champions Cup final this coming weekend. Ulster and Montpellier are also playing the Challenge Cup. both. Montpelier moved up on your baddies index, by the way, Harry index.

Just talk about that quickly, this challenge club. I mean, this is not all or nothing for Ulster, I suppose, to salvage something from the season. They just almost made it in the top eight. Yeah, it's a bit like the Lions. Ulster has so many people out that it doesn't seem, it's a bridge too far, I think.

Stuart McCloskey, you know, one of the players this season. Jacob Stockdale, out. yeah so that's a lot of horse flesh to lose you know on the eve of the sepal chase they have obviously a hard pack but I don't think it stands up you know without Hendo I just yeah it's banged up and I think Montpellier is a power team that's how they've gotten to the top of the top 14 phenomenal season from Montpellier in the top 14 which is a brutally I think they're number 2 or 3 So they probably third but it really close between them and Poe And their points differential are second to Toulouse That no joke You don get to be number two or three in the top 14 20-plus rounds in without being a physical team. And they built it around that. Scrums, lineouts, malls, collisions.

So I just think it's tough for Ulster coming in shorn of some of their best weapons. So, I mean, congratulations. Ulster for getting to that final. Hell of a season. I think a lot of people had written him off this season sort of a rebuild and they did great.

I just don't see it. And I could be completely surprised but I don't see anything other than probably a pretty comfortable win from Montpellier. So on the subject of Ulster, I mean, I was a bit left for bad taste in my mouth. The way that Werner Kock was 48 hours, with 48 hours notice told his contract wasn't going to be renewed after he played his heart out. Is there something behind that?

Not in terms of Werner Kock himself, but being a non-Irish player. What's the story? Werner is so beloved there. Everyone I talked to, I was on an Ulster pod and they're deep insiders and they just love the guy. That was probably one of their biggest things is to re-sign him.

I suppose when you're looking at Irish clubs and what things happen there, there's always a there's a puppeteer there's a there's someone behind it that's they're doing things and so it's difficult to know sometimes who's who and who did what to give you an example of the the different levels so leinster has about a 30 million uh euro operating budget 10 10 and 10 10 from tickets 10 from jersey sponsors and 10 from uh irfoo irish republic you know federal union whatever that distribution does yeah the urfu is what i call them they're on the lansdowne street and little house you can go knock on the door actually it's funny yeah they give my 12 million from that from you know six nations tv and and so you think okay so that's probably the same across the board no it's not uh ulster only has a 12 million pound i mean a 12 million euro budget how is that possible that would translate to a 6.5 million euro wage um ability whereas because of the the urfu taking 70 percent of the of the salaries of any national player in a central contract um leinster's not even having to pay a lot of those wages so there there are 30 million operating budgets, probably more like a 40, which is what Bordeaux is. And then this is obviously, this is incredible, right? To in the South African context, which means that their wages can be about 17 to 18 million euros. The important part of me saying 18 million euros, something Birch and I have talked about back and forth, hard to know exactly, but I think that that's solid.

Is that more than the entire operating budget of Conact it's close to the entire operating budget of of munster and an ulster doesn't even have it's six million you know so keeping vernikock where it might close out some other irish players you know progression sometimes just get vetoed by urfu and they'll just tell you i'm sorry but we you know we're not going to do that in fact we're going to move this guy from here to there and so the integrity of the competition itself is always under siege in Ireland because you're never really sure is this something that happened organically or is it because the masterminds on Lansdowne Road have a goal Dobbson, Dobbson just said the other day there aren't any more wings growing they used to fall over trees in Cape Town Baron of Coch seems to be the perfect coming home signing don't you think yeah and also because he works both ways he's not just a ball in hand you know finisher scorer he works so hard on defense he's got that sevens dog in him uh i love it i think that's a great idea he flies around doesn't he yeah i mean he's just he's one of those guys he has he has no regard for his personal safety all right let's talk about the big one the champions cup final bordeaux versus lindster you know and at the neutral venue with an irish or english sorry an english director of rugby. So we'll probably see a couple of replays that we wouldn't have seen in France if that was the case. What are you expecting there? That's great for the spectator, especially for the neutral, because this is number one and two. If you just take the stats from the Champions Cup competition itself, in most of the stats that matter, this is number one and number two.

So you're sure you're getting the heavyweight champion against the number one challenger, no funny games. The styles are different enough where Leinster's going to win if they can stop. And Bordeaux's going to win if they cannot be stopped. So it's attack versus defense. But if you look at points, tries, carries, line-outs, scrum, meters gained per, line breaks, it's the number one and number two.

There's a few stats maybe that Leinster is number four, but most of it's one and two. And Bordeaux is doing it in such a strange style. I suppose, against my better judgments, I want Leinster to win. And here's my argument as to why. Even though Leinster is pretty much a test team, these guys really, these fellows really are from where they're from.

And I quite like that in the battle between club and country. If you look across Bordeaux's side, and I know Hugh Griffin loves UBB. And yes, there's Waukee, there's Jalebert, there's Leucou, Deportier, Morphana, Bilberry, Peno, Roussin, Porro. So a spine of French test internationals, 10 of them, nine of them. But oh my God, I mean, there's basically an incredible global net around other people.

So there's four foreigns in props. There's two foreign locks. There's three foreign loosies. There's a foreign scrum off, an Irish 10, Johan Ransel van Rensburg, a midfielder, and Selassie Projasi. And the names, they're really top players.

Ben Tamiya Funa, Karl Usadi, Adam Coleman, Johnny Gray. These guys are instrumental in Bordeaux's rise. So it is a bit of mercenary. Not against it. It's the rules.

Who cares? But there's something quite nice about seeing Dublin boys from Donnybrook and South Dublin, you know, went to school together from way back, Black Rock and St. Michael's, up against the sort of pick and choose French money, TV contract that even swamps the money that's in Leinster. So it's a minor difference, but I'll go with that. Also, I think playing in the ERC and following our teams in the ERC, you start to love your enemies.

You start to have like sort of a weirdness. Grunching it to respect, yeah. That's it. And I do. I have great respect for guys like Hugo Keenan and Dan Sheehan.

And they're just fabulous players. You know, as much as he's annoying at test level, Kalen Doris, what a man. You know, what a great player. How cool would it be to have that guy on your team? Yeah.

For me, it's Jockney Nova. It's a deciding vote. I support the team that Jockney Nova coaches. That's, to me, the most important thing. And like you said, sort of the ERK, it's us against them.

You know, the ERK against the full team. That's how I see it. kind of. Yeah. I think, so I think Bordeaux should win.

Like it would be a choke, maybe a little bit if they lose because of 9-10 where you have Leucou, who's probably the best scrum off going right now in France. Might be one of the top in the world. I think Cam Roigard is also incredibly good, but he's right up there. I would probably have Roigard and Leucou as my team if I was picking a world team of nines. and then you have Jalibert who's ousted Intermach at the French level.

He's absolutely, just like Sasha, so quick to a hole that you cannot believe it from a 10, you know, and so comfortable in that. And then you have Penneau and Bilberry who are just sort of stratospheric try scorers. And Leinster's side, it's the proper test team accepted as one bloody hole, which is a 10. And I just think in knockout games, putting it all on Jameson Gibson Park, like Jameson Gibson Park and Hugo Keenan, you've got to carry us. You know, you see how that looks sometimes at Stormers as well, where if two of the three are great, but one of them is a little bit off, it can really kill you in lockout games.

So I think Leinster should lose. Why Leinster will win is because of Nienaber. So Nienaber has an ability on one game to lock down, to eat, drink, breathe, sweat, shower the game 24 hours a day. He's full of incredibly reckless malice when it comes to cutting off that. And I think he could cut Louis Bielbierre off.

He showed he could do it in the World Cup final, that Louis Bielbierre was lost. He was adrift. He was like a guy on a raft to an uninhabited island. And there's a hole in his game. I don't care what he does he's still short, okay?

Let's just be honest so there's a way to do that there's also a way you can make someone overplay Nino Abra is so good at making Finn Russell overplay in the pool match and lost 18-3 so you can make Jolly Bear look like there's too much and there's not something there and he can spin out I'm putting my faith in Nino Abra to pull the upset but if I had to put a million bucks down if it was all in I'd say fuck probably Bordeaux yeah I agree it's going to be a tough one anyway thanks Arie it was Laka as usual going to be doing more of these regularly and also have a couple of exciting guests you want to maybe expand on that a bit well look we're just going to have a merry cavalcade of incredible guests so don't go anywhere join us be with us join our clubhouse that we're talking about in the end come to our events we are having Birch Bernard Jackman do the wrap of this Champions Cup we've just been talking about. A Leinster hooker. One of the best what did you see let me tell you what you just saw kind of commentators I love that. Sometimes I go I don't know what to think about something until I hear Birch. So we've got him for you on this channel and we're going to have that kind of caliber of guests throughout and we're so happy.

Envia it's really good that you built this because I think we were lacking it um a south african orientated look but not too tunnel vision you know we want to be we we love our irish uh and even we have some french we have some french fans but we have a lot of irish uh viewers and they're they're great they're great at comments as well they're excellent arguers talking about um overseas viewers then what them is that one with martin devlin that we did we have a lot of new zealand followers now as well as pulling up nicely and we're going to be We're having more of Martin Devlin on this channel as well. We want to make sure that this greatest rivalry lives up to its promise. Thanks, Harry. Until you're getting next week. Thank you.

This is the Lekker Rugby Pod. Only on Megaphone Rugby. Thank you. Thank you.

Transcript generated automatically — may contain errors.