What 2022 Taught Rassie About Blooding Rookies | Rugby Rundown

It's Tuesday, it's a bit rundown time and welcome back to Yonder Quinen. I was very excited and I am very excited to hear what you think of Rusty's new team but we'll get to that just now. Later on in this video we'll be talking about the latest in the ticketing pricing, I don't want to call it a scandal because it's not a scandal but developing saga, let's call it that. We'll look at the baby box a little bit and then obviously doping. But let's talk about the Speedbox side announced yesterday.

Jan, what did you think? Morning, India. Good day to all the viewers. Yeah, I think Rossi is very clever. I mean, you will remember before the first game, before the England game, we spoke about this and I said to you, Rossi said to me in an interview, it was a media, general media interview, but I asked him a question and he said he's going to continue to rotate right through the season.

You know, he might stick with the team for the greatest rivalry series because that's the big goal this year. but these three matches and the last three matches are going to continue to rotate so true to form russi is rotating you know uh four rookies but i i think again if you look at the team you know people say oh he's making a lot of changes again just look at the team so so we're bringing a yaku williams in on the wing so what does yaku williams got either side of him and jesse krill you know or you know and he's got damien de allen there but i mean i'll get to now so he's got old heads you know Jesse Kittle will make sure that he doesn't get too nervous you know and that's what you need you need an old hand that takes the young back under his wing and we go to fly half you've got Paul I apologize Vusi Moyo sorry apologies for my pronunciation and again you know rookie young guy what does Rashi do? He's got Koobas Reiner on his inside as Kramov to guide him and take the pressure off him because we know Koobas can do that. And on his outside, he's got Damien de Allende. So he's got two old heads, double World Cup winners guys who can actually guide him through the system.

So Rashi is bringing these guys in in a test match, a proper test match. We all know that the Springboks are expected to win well against Wales because Wales is not doing very well. but still, you know, this is a test match so the perfect time to introduce it. I wanted to ask you something are you sure it's Damon D'Alenda, it's not maybe Damon Willemster because there seems to be general confusion I know it's Damon D'Alenda I'm just kidding, but I mean nobody, even on the team sheet on Saturday they said Damon D'Alenda instead of Damon Willemster, I mean does SA Rugby know who plays for them? I think it's the broadcaster that seems to be having problems so I would take that No, it was SA Rugby's team sheet that they sent out to us just before the game started.

Signed by Charles Vessels. It said Damien De Allende. Yeah. Okay. Maybe they take their cue from the broadcaster, or the broadcaster takes their cue from the and pose confusion.

Maybe that's what caught Scotland unawares. They were waiting for the Allende and Willemse rocked up. Yeah, that's probably why Jesse missed so many tackles because he thought it was Damien De Allende, his old partner in crime, and it was Damien Willemse. Suddenly, things changed a little bit. Anyway, sorry, I died.

the case. No, no, no, no, that's brilliant. No, I agree. Let's move to the forwards. And the thing that stands out for me is Paul De Villiers, once again, starting the match, you know, this time with a proper let's call it the proper other two, the loose trio members around him, Peter Steftitoy, captain again, and Jasper Visa.

What does it tell you about the, number one, the trio combination, number two, of CIO's, you know, about CIO's future, and thirdly, about Paul De Villiers specifically. Why is he being entrusted with so much? Because So you talk about rotation, but he's one of the names that keeps popping up week after week. I think for me, the interesting thing about Paul de Villiers is there was a lot of hype about him. And at the Stormers, he really wins some crucial breakdowns.

And it reminds me a lot about Heinrich Brousseau, a really nuggety, grafting person with a high work rate and lots of energy. Now, Heinrich also burst onto the scene like this. and for some other reason, the Springboks didn't like the coaches at the time, didn't always fancy. But I think Rashi has made it clear that he's looking for somebody different in Sia's place. Is Sia going to be back?

I think against the All Blacks, if Sia's fit, Sia will start as our captain. If Sia is not 100%, I have absolutely no problem and I think Rashi is making it clear that there's a change in the picking order. That number six jersey is there for the taking, and I think the Villiers is definitely taking his chances, grabbing it with both hands, as they say. Yeah, I mean, it's massive. I think he's a bright, rising star in the green and gold.

Well, a couple of questions around him. You said he's got a lot of energy, and the one thing that he does have, just as a matter of interest, is a very low centre of gravity. My friend Paul Avernand was at Loftus, and he said it was incredible how low he actually gets to the ground while still being legal. And that doesn't fall out of the sky. That's quite a special...

It's not a skill or a talent. It's just a physical attribute that he's got that he's using to the best of his ability. So, yeah. And in terms of Koukha-Smith, maybe, and Marco for Stalin, I thought he might be the crown prince on the sixth position, but it doesn't seem like Paul de Willis has leapfrogged him. Yeah, I think...

So, let's do Koukha and Marco together. They're both utility players. So, Koukha can play any position. So, he's an ideal player to bring off the bench. I know that some people don't like that and think Koukha must start.

I think certain players are just better at coming off the bench because they bring something different. So, Koukha is one of those guys. If your number eight is suddenly tight, you can play him there. If your number seven is suddenly tight, you know, Peter gets – he's physical enough, you know. Maybe some of the bigger boys can ball him over in a tackle, but he's proven, you know, his tackle success rate is pretty close to 90%.

So he's physical enough. And the same with Marco. You know, he can play hooker. He's always a backup. He's an extra option at hooker.

He can play loose for it. So I think he's also destined for a long-term bench, much like Quagga in two World Cups, come off the bench and make an impact. And I think Marco is the same. So to me, that is, yes, he's looking for a starter, a regular starter. I see Quagga and Marco as regular bench players.

Yeah, that makes sense. And Marco is not called Eskom for nothing. Defensively, you're going to see those gaping holes, you know, kind of a thing that we saw this weekend against Scotland. Maybe not a direct comparison, but still, it was a bit of a shocker. Easily Scotland ran through the pillar and post, you know, mostly forwards, by the way.

It wasn't Andre Paul out missing those tackles, mostly. It was the forwards being disconnected. But story for another day. Let's talk about the locks, the big lock races we started this Nations Championship worth even before the Barbarians eight injuries you mentioned the names last time but yet week after week we seem to be able to find proper locks that other nations wouldn't mind signing and now Ruben van Ierden at last making his Springbok debut and my question is is this going to be a one-trick pony you know just sort of getting his chance getting a run out and then off to France and never to be heard from again or do you think there's maybe a longer term future for him? I think he is a great backup to have is he when all our locks a fit.

He would be probably in the third tier of lock replacement. But at the moment, he's in the first tier. He's a starting lock. And I think it's a deserved starting position. I think he's another one of those crafty.

We don't have a dynamic lock. We don't have a Ruan there. We don't have an Ergier offload king. So we've got two really good crafters, heavy, strong ball carriers. So poor Wales is going to know about it.

You're not going to just run through there. If they are somewhere on the pillars or whatever, you go find another place to try and run through. Have we considered some dynamism? Yes, certainly. We've got Kalu Sadi there as well.

Kalu is quite as shown that he is a bit mobile, but probably not as mobile as you would like to be. And Gerard Steenekamp as well. That's why players like Paul de Villiers and Jasper and Peter Steff is going to be the guys out wide with a bit more pace. and quicker to the breakdown, because a tight five is very rigid. It's probably the best compliment you can pay them, is they're very rigid, but trustworthy, but rigid.

Maybe a bit cumbersome. Maybe that's the word we're looking for. Not as agile as we would like them to be. I agree. Cumbersome is, but cumbersome in a good way, not in a negative way.

They're not plotters. No, no, no. They're not as dynamic as some of us. other locks on. Kian, now you've been a rugby journalist for 40 years or something, many years.

Tell me about that. It was this lift and then running in the air and then basically being thrown past the defenders. And obviously, not intentionally, I'm not saying that. Many people now don't understand the rules and I don't understand the rule exactly either. Is it illegal?

Is it, was it, you know, you can't put a guy down on his head because you have to keep him up. And then, you know, it's going to be a matter of balance to get him where he needs to be. And the fact that get past a couple of defenders, maybe that's an added bonus. But how does that work? Do you know?

You're not supposed to carry him. So long and short of it, you're not supposed to carry him. Did the referee allow it? Yes, we got away with it. Maybe it was momentum.

It's difficult to say. I mean, we're watching on TV and I haven't had a chance to speak to the referee and the referee hasn't spoken about it. So somebody would have asked the referee, is that legal? Because I know that the Scots and a few other UK journalists are having a nappy race about it. Because there was also one in the, I think the baby box game, the same thing happened.

Except that in the baby box game, the guy didn't run with him. In the spring box game, he did carry him for about three or four meters and that gave him momentum. Once he got put down on the ground, he was in full flight already. So that makes it very difficult. So the short answer to that, it not legal You must lift him and bring him down safely That your responsibility as a lifter to bring your own player down safely um but you can run with him it the same as you can carry a guy in the lineup so you the jumper is going to come down to the ground before the mall starts so the opposition can't push you first before your gas feet touch your jumpers feet touches the ground and the same with a lifter in a restart or wherever you lift somebody.

He's first going to come down to the ground and then you can start supporting him, pushing him forward. So, yeah, I think we escaped one there. We got away with one there. Yeah. We were kidding about it because the box are now playing an aerial game, you know, the contestable kicks and everything else and everybody's jumping up.

And we thought maybe Rossi invented another type of aerial game. The guy is above your head. You can't tackle him. I'm just kidding, people. Please don't flaunt me.

I'm just joking. Anyway, let's talk about the bench. Andre Gefenster, I think it's his second test, and then obviously the Herschel Jankies, his first test since 2023. He also went off to France and then made a miraculous comeback. I'm also wondering, is he also one of those given another chance, never to be heard from again?

Because he was sort of kind of plucked out of obscurity to a degree, coming from France again. Any long-term future for him there? Again, that's Rashi's depth. So we've got Krapes is injured. We know that Fafus had to do his knees around.

But Fof is not in Rassi's mainframe at the moment. So I think this is Rassi having another look at Herschel and, you know, just seeing what he's still got. You can watch video clips and stuff, and Rassi will, and you'll get some stats from the French club, as they do. They do that. They ask the clubs about their stats.

So, yeah, I think it's Rassi building depth and making sure that Rashi likes taking four scram halves on any tour. So he likes to have four scram halves in his wider squad. So I think with a couple of injuries, he's just making sure that he's got enough depth to, if he wants to go with four scram halves, he's got four scram halves. I want to go back to Vusi Moyo, who plays for the Sharks, but not really the starting fly-off, for that matter. I'm not sure whether it was injuries or anything.

Now Rashi picks him for the spring box. Not just the under-20 spring box, but the proper springbox, you know, the real deal. What does it tell the Sharks? Does it send a message to the Sharks? We know what happened to Sasha, you know, and he started picking him at 10.

He started playing at 10 for the Stormers more often than he did fly off or center or whatever. What does it say about Vusi Moyer's future at the Sharks, do you think? I think the coach will get the message. Maybe Rashid at some stage will or have already whispered in the Sharks, you know, and JP, yeah, and said, team, listen, this is our next you know, remember this picture and I think we've spoken about this at Nauseam we must see the bigger picture, Russia is busy building not just for next year but for 2031 he's already putting, that's where these youngsters come in you know, when Henry Pollard eventually steps away, who knows maybe after the next World Cup after next year, you know, we've already seen Vali, so he's starting to look for these guys, Vusi can play fullback we know we've got Quinn Horn there, Russia is giving Quinn Horn and Quinn Horn is that utility back you know so you go to a 6-2 bench, Quinn Horn can play fly off and fullback, you can play in the wing if you have to so and that's the if you look at the bigger picture you see all these little selections and instead of really looking at the selection in isolation look at the bigger picture what's going to happen after next year's World Cup there's your answer, Rassi is busy grooming this youngster whether it's for fullback or fly off or with whatever position, he's busy grooming and giving opportunities to get a feel for the Springboks, get a feel for Test Rugby. And when the youngster starts playing regularly, he won't be wide-eyed or like a deer in headlights situation.

I often wonder how much communication there is between the Springboks and the provincial teams or the franchises. To say, listen, I've got a plan for Vusi at Springbok level for this, and I want you, if you can. But obviously there are demands at the union or franchise level that might not necessarily, you know, lend itself to that. They can't always pick him at 10, for example, because they need somebody else to fly or fullback, for argument's sake. I'm just saying.

That's an interesting conundrum. Okay, anyway, let's ask you this. This team, what does it tell you? You said the tight five might be a bit cumbersome, slower than normal, a bit more physical, maybe. Very dangerous backline, though.

That, Jaco Williams, you just mentioned, is fast. One of those, you know, one of those players, when you heard his name the first time for the shock, you knew this guy was going to be a springboard kind of a thing. I know that's a very dangerous thing to say, but you know, we've been proven correct with that. What do you think? How is this South African springboard team going to play against Wales on Saturday?

What does it tell you? I think like this past weekend against Scotland, there will be periods of disconnect. Because these guys as a combination haven't played. They've been training. Let's make no bones about this.

These teams knew before the start of the season which players are going to play in which match. So they would have had time to train together as a combination, but they wouldn't have played together. So there will be, because these players don't know each other that well. Okay, Jakub, and again, I want to go back to what I said at the beginning, Jakub Williams will have up a little fussy. They know each other because they've been at the Sharks.

So that will help him ease into it. You know, Jesse Creel's an old hand. He knows how to bring youngsters around, and he's been good at that, and he's a senior, and he's a leader in the team. And the same if you go to Busy, he will also have you know I know was probably at the shot before was out of nappies but he's a player that understands that culture so he will understand what type of player is and what culture he comes from so he will know how to guide him into the springbok or ease him into the springbok fold and the Bok culture per se. All right.

I wanted to ask you one more question about this rotation thing. Jacques Ninabe did this in 2022 against Wales and that second teammate, I think, 12 or something, or 15, I don't know, many, many changes. More than this even. And that sort of backfired. They lost, they just lost still, but they lost.

The first loss against Wales at home ever. What's the difference between that rotation and what has now evolved into the way Rossi is now doing it, do you think? Just remember, in 2022, we hadn't had a whole build-up, because we came out of COVID, then it was the isolation Lions series, where you can only have so many players, and half of the team at one stage was in isolation in another city, and it was a very strange time. So, Rossi didn't have the luxury of three or four weeks before the season start with players together, and players knowing when they're going to play and training together. You're talking about a 46-man squad that's been training together.

Three teams, proper teams, has been training together all the time. So three, four years ago, Rasi didn't have this luxury. So I think that's the big difference. This is not something he decided last week to do. It's something he's been planning since last year.

For me, the biggest difference is what you said right from the start. They put in the young players, but they surround them with old heads. So they're not 15 young players thrown into the deep end. You've got a couple of them seeded throughout the team, but there are the old heads around them, cooler heads that will guide them through it. And that's actually, for me, the biggest difference.

I think they learned the lesson that not to... You can make the changes, but you have to be strategic about how you make them. And I think this is what I'm seeing. Just quickly about Wales travelling back from Argentina. They lost, but I mean, they seem to be on a bit of an upward trend here.

Not maybe, you know, shooting the lights out, but definitely not maybe the walkover you would have expected. I mean, after the first round of the Nations Champions, they were on top of the Northern Amesphere log because they beat Fiji, who would have thought, and all the other teams basically lost, like England lost against South Africa. What are you expecting from this Wales team just in general? I think they are, in my view, and it's just my personal view, I think they're on the same level as England, maybe just below, but there or thereabouts. So I still expect the Springboks to win, but they will give some resistance at least in the first half.

So I think much like it was this past weekend in the first round, I think half-time it'll be still close. Last 20 minutes, the game will open up, especially with the back line and what's coming off the bench. I mean, if you look at Urshel Jankes, we know he's quick. Marnie Libok coming off the bench and Damon Willems are coming off the bench. It's going to be a mad rush in that last 20.

So I'm actually looking forward to seeing those guys come back after the... Well, after the groundwork has been laid, and as we say, the slow poison of that massive tight five. Lastly on this, I want to talk about Spiri Stefft at Toye playing week after week. I know they're building up to his 100th test, which then supposedly be somewhere in their greatest rivalry, I suppose. But isn't it a bit risky?

He's one of our key players. If he gets injured now, and he is a little bit injury prone, he's been a little bit injury prone, he's been out for the majority of the season as well. aren't they taking a bit of a chance is this just a way to get him match fit again and on that subject why not just give Ben Jason Dixon a run at 7 and Cameron Hanukum for example you know another try he got one start against England he didn't maybe shoot the lights out because he was out of position short notice and the likes I would have liked for example to see him being given another chance and I'm sure I'm going to you know people are howling now you'll get another chance against Argentina or whatever the case might be I'm just wondering about this specific team against an opposition that's maybe not as tight or tough as Algetino would be away? I think, to me again, Peter Steff playing all the time is Rassi's bigger picture. Of course, he's making changes all the time.

He needs somebody that's stable there. He needs some stability and a strong leader. So I think that's what it is, is having a strong leader and a respected player in that pack that can lead those forwards when there's so many changes from week to week. Malcolm Marks has the other stability that starts every week. And Jesse And Jesse Jesse is in the back line Jesse will guide the backs But if we looking at the forwards in specific there lots of changes around them But those guys are respected players, leaders in the box setup.

And they can guide the youngsters. When they stand under the poles like they did against Scotland, you can see. You know, you can see who's talking. You can see who's bringing them in. And who leads by example.

So, yeah, no, I think it's more keeping the, allowing Rossi to make the changes and have some stability. Yeah. If I look at the forwards, clearly Peter Steff is by far the most experienced one. I suppose the second one most experienced would be Malcolm Marks, but he's not really known for being outspoken. He's not going to go and, you know, G up the troops under the poles.

I was wondering maybe why Jesse wasn't my captain again. He's been captain before. But we also know Rossi doesn't like the captain to be too far away from the forwards and too far away from the referee. But yeah, that's it. Okay, let's move on quickly.

Last Wednesday, I was in Cape Town. You and I were having a coffee. And as we were talking, you got a message to say that a junior springbok was tested positive for, let's call it doping. So tell me about that. Your reaction firstly.

And is this now more and more evidence of something going on, especially in junior rugby, schools rugby even? There is a perception, and we can't argue that. there's a perception that doping is right in south africa unfortunately there are enough cases i mean there's two cases there's another school boy as well and so there are cases of doping of players being found guilty uh is it rife yeah it's a perception but i'm not sure it's that right so so my my feeling in general is one of caution you know the the kid asked for his b sample to be tested uh i we have no idea because of that the what happened the type of uh substance that was found although it's supposedly a steroid type substance um so there's not much information coming out and and they have to be careful about what they put out in the public domain because this guy's challenging the Guilty till proven innocent. Innocent till proven guilty. Sorry, the other way around.

It depends on which part of the country. Exactly. That was a Freudian slip there, I think. Anyway. I think I'm cautious, but you can't argue with the guys who say that doping is life in South Africa.

Because that is a perception. Because there's so many cases, so many guilty cases. I mean, you can just go, let's say since 2018, which, yeah, let's, more or less 2018. I mean, Elton Yankees, Slava Kanye, there's, you know, so we can go through this kid. Apuwe De Yanti, you know, you name him.

There's another one, yeah, Apuwe De Yanti was also from that period. I was looking for his name, apologies, thanks for reminding me. You suddenly got five cases of high-profile players. so can we argue against guys who says doping is rife no we can't i'm still i still will err on the of caution i think given the number of tests that are being done i think they said we test on average about five players a month or five players a game or something but it's across the whole broader spectrum you know so you're not you're talking about tournaments across the country so they're also talking about the the craven week and stuff like that so you're talking of hundreds of tests and and over a period of almost eight years yeah yeah it's eight years now so almost a decade we've had five high profile cases is that rife um maybe our testing is just better than the rest of the world maybe maybe we should ask that question okay that's the thing john we don't have testing we send it overseas that's we don't even have our own laboratory anymore so yeah i can't remember i know there are more names and i just can't you know put my my head or get my head around it i can't remember those names the point i'm asking is do we do enough tests you know you can only catch someone out if you do enough tests and there's a perception that it's being swept under the carpet that's the overseas you know if you're talking about to any frenchman for example he's going to send you a picture of an injection that is in standard emoji answer you know to just primox winning the World Cup, for example. That's just the perception.

And the question is, I suppose, you know, we have... Maybe you and I should, you know, dig a little bit deeper and talk about this in more depth. So let me just move on quickly. Because I want to talk about the junior springboks last night. Number one, two red cards in that game.

Firstly, the England player, I don't know what he was thinking. Firstly, and then that's the very same player who got knocked on the head, got a red card himself. And that's now, you know, it turned into a 20-minute red card. but the point is he might miss the final. What did you see in that game?

Because the first half didn't go all the way off the spring box and then second half they just pulled the weight. Tell me about that. Yeah, so England in that early, that first 20 minutes to half an hour, they were brutal, brutal. And the baby box wanted to get into their running game and they allowed themselves to be distracted. You know, they got bullied a bit.

And then once the red card came, suddenly it gave the baby box that lift believe that they can go ahead with this and they can now play their running game. So it was indeed... Yeah, once they got into the running game, and at that stage, Englands were down to 14 men. So it was 15 against 14 before the baby box got their red card. And outside, our pace outside, our game, taking it wide.

And that also tied the Welsh forwards. They scored tries late on but you can see when the game was gone the baby box is off and they allowed them in for a couple of tries which make the it distorted the scoreline because uh the baby box are far better than this england team um we still rely on brute force and you know this is there's something wrong in english rugby because if their pack doesn't dominate completely if they don't bully you. They've got nothing else. You know, their attack didn't seem to really bother us that much. You know, it's their forwards that created the gaps.

You know, guys running into gaps or guys running into defensive lines, bending their defensive line and then causing gaps elsewhere. So, I just think that I haven't seen much of the French team for the... So, I'm not sure if they've got a pack of forwards that can dominate us like England can. and then our backs are in the game, you know, so we've got a very good chance. It's going to be a very exciting final, but I think this Baby Bock team is very...

I mean, if you think of the amount of talent that's coming through, you're looking at these players, you know, the Baby Bock flyer was sitting with a spring box, you know. The Baby Bock captain injured now, but he's sitting with a spring box, you know. So you think of the sheer amount of talent that's coming through and you look at the centres, you're looking at some of the props, you know those are still children under 20 they're 19 some of them have just turned 20 so you're looking at children that's five years from now you know when we get to the 2031 World Cup some of these guys could be in the springboard team. Yeah it's exciting times I just wanted to ask you this if it wasn't for that red card of England and they were basically dominating us would it have made a difference to the game would they have continued to dominate it and maybe you know pulled away or was it just a matter of time until they got, you know, like you just mentioned, got tired and then from all the, you know, springboks running kind of again? I saw something that I thought was happening.

The baby box waiting for that one moment. They were trying to create, and they got a bit nervous. So I think by halftime, and you could see the difference when they came out at halftime. They were so focused. At first, 15, 20 minutes after halftime, before they let the concentration slip again.

they were so focused that England had no clue what was going on and you needed to, all they had was that one try because it was 2012 and all they needed was that one try to give them that belief and they did that and then suddenly the dam wall burst so we could have, and I'm just saying, we just needed that one try we could have had it even with them at 15 on the field and it was a different ball game and then this team and when this baby box team believes and they play according to that structure which we saw the the best time was that first 15 minutes after half time that that period showed me what the true value or the quality of this baby box team is and how good they can be so are they up and down are they maybe they're lacking riley's leadership calmness um but i think the the this this team it would still have i think we would still have one that we might not have won as easy because 21 points in a matter of eight minutes i think if i if i'm correct uh that broke the straw that broke the camel's back and again you know i mean england did score a couple of late tries and but at that stage the game was gone and the baby box we were just in a retainment mode you know they you can clearly see the yeah yeah they were in cruise control and And there were a number of changes, you know. And also we were down to 14. So we're back 14 against 14. Right. Let's move on quickly to the ticketing thing that we mentioned.

Last week, I talked about you finding out that SRP was giving out free tickets for the Alice Park game. And we were actually quoted on another channel by Rory Stain, who's a friend of Megaphone, quoting you and Megaphone to talk about that tickets being given away. What's the latest on that? there seems to be a bit of a gradual awakening in the corridors of power at SRRP that maybe they miss them. They misjudged this one.

Inbier, that is so funny. The way Saru and I, we spoke about the smoker and murderous thing. The way Saru is playing around with us before the Ellis Park game and pretending that nothing was wrong. And then lowering the prices midweek And then free tickets appear on the market And still we don know how many free tickets This past week, they didn't say much, but you saw clearly there were gaps in Loftus. I think I heard somewhere, and I'm not sure how accurate this is, that there were 15,000 unsolved tickets.

So what's Loftus 52, 55? Yeah, that 45,000, that was the official count. That's what they said, yeah, what we heard, yeah. At Loftus. Okay.

So maybe the penny has finally dropped. Yesterday, Saru put out a statement that they're going to review the ticketing strategy. Listen very carefully. Ticketing strategy at the end of the season. So I think the penny has dropped.

They understand. And I will read some of it to you so that the viewers can understand. they still say they're not there for profit and stuff but they clearly try trying to make some money and i understand so i've got to qualify this first before i know people are going to get upset and they jump down our throats not that it matters uh we do care what the viewers think but they need to understand where we come from so the first thing is i understand they need to pay the players they need they need a lot of money they need to pay the spring box they need to be pay the women box they need to pay the baby box without money these teams won't be as successful okay so so but still there can be better ways you know i i think if they had slashed before the game even they had slashed the alice park tickets by half all of them slash by half they would have had 50 000 paying customers how many of those who are paying customers i know the mere fact that they had to drop the prices slash the prices maybe tells me there's something wrong again uh 10 000 like you said unsolved tickets slightly lower prices they would have sold more tickets at loftus so i think that's the important thing so that in mind this is what sorry to say yesterday in the press release um we must balance this commitment with the responsibility of making these events financially viable it's a delicate balancing act but one we are determined to manage responsibly and then later on in this statement i mean it's quite a long statement our commercial strategies are designed to cover the cost of running rugby in south africa and we and not to increase profits yes you're going to pay the bills but you've got to be realistic you know it's supply and demand unfortunately i think sorrow has now realized that the the demand is not as high as they think it would be yes i know that the the all black games are mostly all sold out or there's a much higher demand but you for the average man in the street for me and you that want to go watch a game i can't afford i can't afford a thousand rent let alone three thousand rent for a ticket so you know if i'm going to take my wife with that's two thousand rent if i start just to start that's not my transport that's not my food and drinks at the stadium you know even even just a pie and a coke will cost you upwards of 50 bucks. So, you know, and I think to me, the penny has dropped. So I realize they need to really look at this and need to find a more balanced, as they say, a more balanced approach.

Well, I think in fairness, they're not just paying the spring box. They also have to contribute to the unions, the franchises, you know, the smaller rugby unions. They have to keep everybody afloat and they make their money from sponsorships and they make their money from these tests. Then that means if people are not prepared to pay those prices, you have to drop the prices. But it obviously means your income is going to lower.

Like any normal salary earner will tell you, if your income is lower, then your expenses have to go lower as well. So maybe we have to talk about the structure of SRRP. Can we afford all these little unions and small towns and everything else? I'm not running them down. Can we afford all the bodies that sit at Plattitliff?

Ooh, thanks, Jan. You left the zinger for last. i i know that you need administrators i know that you need people i i think and again it's a bigger picture i think we need to look at the bigger picture here you you have to uh also cover the craven weeks because that's where some of our best talent comes from these youth tournaments so there's a whole process and i understand all that if you drop your prices slightly more you'll get more people into the stadium which means instead of getting a half full stadium and then having to give tickets away, you now will get a three-quarter full stadium or a full stadium, and you make more money than you made anyway because you had to give half your tickets away. That's just the basic principle, I think, that they will sit and review and decide next year, okay, maybe giving it all these corporates maybe their fight with the loft of sweet holders also burned them a bit because they suddenly realized that even the sweet people are not going to buy. I certainly not.

Just to sit in the sweet then I'd rather go sit in the stand. I mean, I can go get my beer at the pub. You know, if I pay a thousand rand, I can still have a beer before the game. I can have a beer in the stadium. I have my pie or my packet of chips and whatever and still enjoy the game from the stand.

But I'm not going to pay six or seven thousand rand to have some weird menu which I don't like in any event. For the seat that you paid for the beginning of the season. You have to pay for it again. Exactly, yeah. But it's not that easy.

It's not that simple. and we have to explain that to people sometimes. It's not that simple, but yeah, there is a court case going on, so we don't can talk about that too much. Yeah. I agree with you.

The development of rugby is important, but there's limits to everything. And I wanted to ask you this little, maybe a bit more controversial question. The fact that the tickets were expensive is one thing, but is the demand still there? It seems, I just get a feeling, and I've said it to someone else before, there's a little bit of fatigue almost sitting in here maybe you know fuel is so much more expensive than it was a year ago and groceries are more expensive and everything else people not that worried about rugby whether it's springboks or not so springbok versus england maybe still springbok versus wales i don't know i'm not going to go watch that one yeah all blacks almost still make a plan i'm trying to say that i think the product might be getting a bit stale here almost you know we all love russie but you know still another year now there's more springboks more money. I'm just getting the impression that it's getting a bit flat.

I don't know what your impression is. I think it's more that people know what's coming. So if I've got a hundred bucks to watch rugby this year, and you rightly said, am I going to spend money on Wales when I want to go watch the All Blacks? Am I going to spend money on England, who's not having a great time, in a dangerous stadium that's in an environment that's derelict and full of crime and and believe me there's enough reports if you want to dig a little bit more there were problems so do i want to spend my money on that no i'm going to spend my money and go watch the all blacks i mean i've never watched at uh fnb stadium in soweto it's something i would like to do one day you know that's on my bucket let's go watch a game there and so i'm going to take my own random and rather go watch a game in soweto than watch a game at ellis park against england who's not that great. So that's the reality of it.

And again, like you said, it sounds simplistic, but it's the basic principle of supply and demand. So you've got so many games all up here in Gauteng, or there in your Gauteng, I'm in Keita. So you get all those games. You get two games at Loftus. You've got two tests at Ellis Park.

And you've got a transvolver So suddenly you've got all these games in Gauteng, and for people from outside of Gauteng to go, why not take a game to Nelspey or to Bloemfontein? And I can guarantee you a Wales game in Nelspey or Bloemfontein will attract a lot more people than a Wales game in Durban. I must actually investigate what the demand is for tickets in Durban. No, I agree with your argument. You mentioned you're 100 grand.

The point is, at the beginning of this year, you would have probably had 200 Rand to go watch matches. Now with, you know, everything that's been happening in the world, fuel is more expensive. Everything's more expensive. So your money that you have available to spend on rugby is not 200 Rand anymore. It's 100 Rand.

So you are going to be more selective where you're going to be watching it. And that's what SA Rugby referred to in their press release to say that the Iran war has had an effect and people were laughing at it. But I mean, it makes sense. One of our friends, rugby journalist, moved down to the Cape and at 18 Rand a litre and suddenly it's 30 something around the liter you know to come back to loft it's not that simple that cheap anymore it's just reality people anyway sorry yeah i know if i put uh diesel into the what used to 500 used to get me 100 300 kilometers you know so 500 range used to get me 300 kilometers now 500 rand gets me 150 kilometers yeah that's the reality so so to to make it simplistic that's the yes i know it's iran war but and and i also laughed at it and i also mocked them about it because they they without clarifying it the iran wars made living in an already uh brittle economy you know so prices fluctuate all the time and and that's a reality 500 got you 300 kilometers in your vehicle now suddenly 500 only gets you 150 meters you now have to two weeks down the line or a week down the line you have to put another 500 so that's where your rugby money is going to say yeah sonny you're right the the the demand is less but for reasons other than just too much rugby yeah it's a combination of the two i think i agree i agree 100 okay thank you i have to let you go you've got other commitments calling to you so thank you for making time for us as always this has been fun we'll see you where we get quoted on this week so thank you maybe sorry quotes us to let us know that we no longer welcome at Plottercliffe. Again.

Thanks, Jan. I appreciate it. Cheers. Thanks, Jan. We are very appreciate it.

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